bobt993

that style of late braking will make you slower. If you come in from a session feeling lucky to stay on the track then it is time to get someone in the right seat to change some habits. Ultimately, a top level pro will combine maximum braking with precise entry, but your leaving so much time on the table in corner entry that you should pick up the dollars first then go back and get the change. Eg. The car I worked with picked up a couple of seconds by learning how to lift in corners he was taping the brakes and brake earlier lin others to setup entry. Late braking may award you a couple of tenths at high risk and very tough on the horse your riding.

To the OP. Yes, you should practice threshold braking to know the car's potential and it's habits under 100% pedal effort. Then learn how to come off the brakes easy and avoid the front end lifting. Once you can commit to your muscle memory the limits, then work on connecting the pedals to the wheel. Practice no brake drills on cool down and yellow laps where you drive just fast enough to not use brakes around the track and very little throttle efforts. You will be surprised at how fast you can take certain corners.

Bill N

I think an additional advantage of lifting your vision early after focussing on end of braking is that it promotes better trail braking.

Matt Romanowski

Knowing most of the tracks you probably drive - I think the first thing is to identify corners you can work on later braking and feel safe. NHMS doens't really have any corners like that. Think the Bus Stop at Watkins Glen, Big Bend at LRP, Turn 1 at Summit. Turn 1 at Pocono North Course. All corners with lots of runout and a safe area to bail out if you get worried.

Then, pick a marker later than you normally start braking and start using it. You'll see you can safely and easily get the car slowed enough to make the corner. Now start pushing that point back. Make small increments - i.e. 4 to 3.75 to 3.5. As you get later, go even small. Just before 3, at 3, just after 3, etc.

As you do this, you'll find you get to a point where you are either simply too rushed to get a good turn in (and the car is out of shape) or you simply can't slow enough. Now back up a little and find the latest point that works to get the car into the corner.

aj986s

A que that I use and teach is that if you find you need to apply throttle between turn-in and the apex, then you've entered the corner too slow. I try to enter the corner such that my entrance speed is the max I can use, and that I've accomplished it only by the amount of braking used before, and even slightly after turn-in (trail braking). Trail braking at turn-in also helps put more weight on the front tires, to improve traction.

In order to achieve the proper entry speed, it greatly helps if your braking consistent and repeatable. I always jump on students who don't break evenly before the turn. Easing up and down on the brake pedal does not achieve consitency. You can start by picking an early brake point/marker and apply 100% committed braking effort, and holding it until you're clearly at or below your desired entry speed. If its well before the turn-in point, then you know you can brake later. The objective is to find the same braking point each lap, with a firm, committed brake application, that get you to the proper entry speed at turn-in so that you don't feel the need for throttle until you get to the apex.

Couple of caveats:

• Not each corner is exactly the same. The above is primarliy applicable to a corner at the end of a long, fast straightaway. The corner's speed, line before and line after need to be taken into consideration. But, the objective of entering the corner at proper speed still applies in almost 100% of turns.
• Remember that what happens in the preceeding track section will affect the next section. If you've worked up your speed in the corner at the beginning of a long straight, the extra exit speed will carry as additional speed when you get to the next braking zone. You would need to brake earlier in order to scrub off the additional speed. Learning to drive the entire track is basically a series of dominoe events that you need to manage.
• I also find that as cornering speed increases due to experience, you may reach a point where you find it difficult to get down to the apex properly, moreso in some corners versus others. What's happening is that your increased entry speed is causing your car to drift slightly. If you try to force the car to the apex by turning more, you may end up breaking traction at the back and cause a spin. Instead, you should try turning in slightly earlier, and then let the car drift to the apex, without providing the extra steering input.

Lastly, I'll add to the additional comments about looking ahead. When I took an SCCA racing school in the 80's, it was with Bertil Roos at Pocono Raceway. One of his teaching items was called "Autopilot". He recommended:

• Keep you head upright at all times to provide consitent physiological feedback to your "balance" sensors. Leaning your head provides confusing vision and balance feedback to your brain.
• Turn your head towards your next "target". When at Turn-in, turn towards the Apex. When at the Apex, turn towards the Track-out. You brain is able to handle what it already knows is in front of you; your goal is to give it information regarding the next action coming up. I believe that advanced Autox schools even do an exercise where the bottom portion of the visor is covered with black tape, so that the driver can never see what's immediately in front of them.

FredC

Why don't the coaches here call it braking as late as possible as hard as possible so that:
1. the car doesn't get out of balance
2. the brakes can be released gradually (without the nose jackin up suddenly)
3. the car can be steered precisely where it should be

????

I guess I am missing something...

aj986s

You're points are all correct. #2 especially! All inputs (throttle, brake & steering) should be done with the intent of keeping the car as close to neutral as possible. Jumping up suddenly front/back or left/right puts more strain on the suspension making it harder to maintain good traction.

Veloce Raptor

Posts # 24 & 25 ?

FredC

I mean I agree that one should start by learning to brake properly before learning to push hard... But I struggle to understand that braking softer/earlier is faster than harder/later if all 3 objectives (car balance, proper release, steering precision) are equally met in both scenarios. Would love to find time that way so to go faster and faster. Data hasn't supported it so far for me.

FredC

Hard to parse threads thoroughly on blackberry. Sorry. 24 hours to live for my BB device. Finally jumping on the iphone bandwagon...

Veloce Raptor

Beacuse in my experience those 3 objectives cannot be equally met in both scenarios by the vast majority of drivers.

aj986s

I guess for me it revolves around the turn's entry speed. I want to enter the turn such that I don't feel a need for any throttle until I'm at or almost to the apex. Then it becomes a matter of how fast am I going before that turn.

At Summit Point for example, T1 is at the end of a long straight. I need lots of braking to get the car down to the entry speed. At T3 I only require a slight stomp on the brakes, primarily to put weight on the front wheels to aid in turn-in. At T4, I usually only lift briefly, again to transfer some weight onto the the fronts to help turn-in. T5 becomes interesting though; braking zone is slightly downhill, and a lot speed is carried from T4. Too hard initial braking and I move too much weight off the rears inducing lockup. But also depends on how much speed you need to scrub for turn-in. My 944NA seems to have plenty of room for throttle, braking and turn-in; but much faster cars need to manage the throttle between T4 and T5.

FredC

Then it's a matter of compromise. But if one's focus is on braking as late/hard as possible so that all 3 objectives are met, what can be better? I'm not pushing back, I just want to better understand.

Veloce Raptor

Perhaps because in most cars, it is not possible to brake as hard as the car will allow without pitching the car on its nose....which sort of obviates at least one of these objectives. I look at top tier Spec Miata racers: generally, unless they are competing for position, they tend to brake slightly earlier & slightly softer (in the places where they actually do brake) than the 2nd tier racers, and they eke out an advanttage each corner.

nshanny

Rich,

I am using track reference points, distance #s on boards, markings on the track, eg visual references unique to each corner. For each corner I am remembering my last time through and trying to see if I had more available speed to carry through the corner; how the car was feeling upon entry; as well as my comfort level.

At this point I am thinking the immediate problem that I am having is not looking far enough ahead - eg through the apex and beyond. Using my last driving event at WG, I went through a couple of laps in my head and I am positive that I am making sure that I slow to a reasonable speed and then move through the corner, instead of picking a braking point and then driving the car through the corner, speeding up if I braked too soon, and then adjusting my braking point next time around.

bobt993

Fred, What has stuck with me the most from a coaching session I had with Cervelli a couple of years back was his assessment after our first debrief. He pointed out that I was really good at slowing the car down (braking) and getting back on the throttle and that was in effect was hurting my laps times..... ???? I re-learned mid-corner speed by being very soft on the car on entry and it was such a leap of faith that I could no longer apply heavy throttle.

Data supports this well: Red trace is driver's car using max brakes, full racing ABS, and traction control. Green trace is with a passenger working only on corner entries to let him "feel" the speed commitment less brakes even some lifting. Even with traffic in T2 ( you can see the slow entry into the second corner to get around a car) he was just as fast as his best lap less 200 lbs. Keep in mind, I held back his throttle a little on exits to focus only on his entry technique. I rounded up his data points for the session and he had picked up almost 2 seconds. The purple trace is my car with way less power, stock brakes, but putting it all together. My lap was a 1:27 at Tbolt and he was at 1:29's prior.

BTW they have not cut the grass in T2 yet so you cannot see the curbing enough to get a driver to take more of it. They really think your telling them to drive off the track.