Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Overcoming tentative braking

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-17-2011, 05:34 PM
  #16  
quickxotica
Rennlist Member
 
quickxotica's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Francisco & parts north
Posts: 1,010
Received 189 Likes on 85 Posts
Default

Since you acknowledge the problem is a mental one, try directly addressing the way your brain is programmed:

1. Instead of focusing on your initial braking-points, focus on where in each corner-entry you want to get OFF the brakes. From there, let your subconcious brain figure out the initial brake point (which is speed-dependent anyway). Be safe... baby-steps, etc.
2. Between sessions, reinforce this re-programming by visualizing world peace. No, wait... I mean visualize your end-of-braking point rather than your initial braking point.
Old 05-17-2011, 06:13 PM
  #17  
swftiii
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
swftiii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Parkland, FL
Posts: 2,077
Received 17 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

Nick,

When I started track driving the first thing I told every instructor that got in the car is "I know I brake very early and can wait, but I'm not comfortable with that yet".

I focused on corner entry speeds and driving the corners first then started working on lengthening the straights. The way I overcame this was to pick a corner (end of a long straight) and pick a comfortable brake point and started increasing my brake pressure each lap. Once I realized I was finishing my braking a good 50 yards or more before turn in I started pushing my brake point close to the turn in. I just kept doing this until I found that I actually brake later than most and can get slowed down well befor turnin.

That was just my approach, but use something like that for yourself. Remember to do this when there isn't anyone behind you becuase braking early could cause a real problem.

Also, as you progress you will find that you want to keep up with folks that are in your run group and you will continue to brake later and later...

Enjoy the journey of learning.

Skip
Old 05-17-2011, 06:20 PM
  #18  
kush07
Racer
 
kush07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by quickxotica
1. Instead of focusing on your initial braking-points, focus on where in each corner-entry you want to get OFF the brakes. From there, let your subconcious brain figure out the initial brake point (which is speed-dependent anyway). Be safe... baby-steps, etc.
This is much more easily accomplished with your eyes up and looking at turn in and apex rather than your braking zone. My guess is you're staring at your braking zone (and more likely the wall at the end of it) which is freaking you out.
Old 05-17-2011, 06:48 PM
  #19  
quickxotica
Rennlist Member
 
quickxotica's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Francisco & parts north
Posts: 1,010
Received 189 Likes on 85 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by kush07
This is much more easily accomplished with your eyes up and looking at turn in and apex rather than your braking zone. My guess is you're staring at your braking zone (and more likely the wall at the end of it) which is freaking you out.
Yes, I should have mentioned that a benefit of this end-of-braking approach is that it keeps your visual focus farther away. I've never understood how anyone can drive into a corner correctly if they spend the entire straight staring at the initial brake point. Focusing on the end-of-brake point as you do the straight, then as soon as you're on the brakes lift your gaze to the apex, then exit, such that your eyes are at least one step farther through the corner than the car at all times. Peripheral vision takes care of the rest.

Last edited by quickxotica; 05-17-2011 at 07:52 PM.
Old 05-17-2011, 07:44 PM
  #20  
rlm328
Rennlist Member
 
rlm328's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 6,305
Received 309 Likes on 206 Posts
Default

Paint your car to resemble a John Deere tractor so you don't mind running off track occasionally.
Old 05-17-2011, 07:47 PM
  #21  
Veloce Raptor
Rennlist Member
 
Veloce Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Guess...
Posts: 41,789
Received 1,610 Likes on 836 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by rlm328
Paint your car to resemble a John Deere tractor so you don't mind running off track occasionally.
So THAT'S why mglobe painted his that way....
Old 05-17-2011, 08:30 PM
  #22  
nshanny
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
nshanny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Newton, MA
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Great suggestion on the visualization. I do agree that I do catch myself not looking at the apex and beyond at times. Sometimes a dope slap would be useful.

I was at the Glen this weekend and was talking with an instructor (Dave) who was saying the same thing for himself. When he got off the track as was frustrated with his times or whatnot, he would go back to fundamentals and find that most of the time he was not looking far enough ahead. He would start doing that and things would get significantly better.
Old 05-17-2011, 08:58 PM
  #23  
Jimbo951
Racer
 
Jimbo951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

I agree with Swftiii.

One thing the original poster didn't mention was his total driving experience. Until you feel like you're 100% maximizing the cornering speed, then that's what you should be working on, not braking. IMHO, you need atleast 30-50 track days before braking becomes something you should be focusing on.
Old 05-17-2011, 09:19 PM
  #24  
bobt993
Rennlist Member
 
bobt993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Philly Burbs
Posts: 3,077
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Today I worked with a 460 Modena and an experienced driver/racer. His issue was braking too hard too late. So, do learn what your car can do under threshold braking, then learn to apply the proper amount of braking, but try and avoid the overbraking syndrome early in your learning curve. I would rather see a driver using earlier braking with higher corner entry than massive ABS or wheel lock efforts that upset the car on entry thus requiring the slower entry speeds. What most drivers begin to believe is that they are the absolute limit of grip on entry and higher entry is impossible. Based on how twisted the car balance is on entry they are correct. It takes a bit to reprogram this approach. I am sure VR can add to this conversation.
Old 05-17-2011, 09:49 PM
  #25  
Veloce Raptor
Rennlist Member
 
Veloce Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Guess...
Posts: 41,789
Received 1,610 Likes on 836 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bobt993
Today I worked with a 460 Modena and an experienced driver/racer. His issue was braking too hard too late. So, do learn what your car can do under threshold braking, then learn to apply the proper amount of braking, but try and avoid the overbraking syndrome early in your learning curve. I would rather see a driver using earlier braking with higher corner entry than massive ABS or wheel lock efforts that upset the car on entry thus requiring the slower entry speeds. What most drivers begin to believe is that they are the absolute limit of grip on entry and higher entry is impossible. Based on how twisted the car balance is on entry they are correct. It takes a bit to reprogram this approach. I am sure VR can add to this conversation.
Not much to add, you nailed it. This is IMO one of the biggest bang-for-buck things an ADVANCED driver can learn: braking earlier & softer...and slowing the car les, with a more stable poised chassis at corner entry.
Old 05-17-2011, 09:52 PM
  #26  
bobt993
Rennlist Member
 
bobt993's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Philly Burbs
Posts: 3,077
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

BTW VR what a sound that car made!!!!! one sexy lady.
Old 05-17-2011, 10:54 PM
  #27  
Veloce Raptor
Rennlist Member
 
Veloce Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Guess...
Posts: 41,789
Received 1,610 Likes on 836 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bobt993
BTW VR what a sound that car made!!!!! one sexy lady.
They sound orgasmic.

Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 07-20-2011 at 06:33 PM.
Old 05-17-2011, 11:00 PM
  #28  
Rich Sandor
Nordschleife Master
 
Rich Sandor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 8,985
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Nick, lets go back to basics.

How do you decide when to apply your brakes? (What visual reference do you use?)
Old 05-17-2011, 11:07 PM
  #29  
DC5Chick06
Advanced
 
DC5Chick06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Melrose, Florida
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by rlm328
Paint your car to resemble a John Deere tractor so you don't mind running off track occasionally.
Maybe I should do this! lol

Back OT, I have the same issue, I know the car has way more brake than I will ever need, but I can't seem to get it through my mind to "Go until you see God, then brake!"
Old 05-17-2011, 11:17 PM
  #30  
Veloce Raptor
Rennlist Member
 
Veloce Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Guess...
Posts: 41,789
Received 1,610 Likes on 836 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by DC5Chick06
Back OT, I have the same issue, I know the car has way more brake than I will ever need, but I can't seem to get it through my mind to "Go until you see God, then brake!"
IMO you don't need to except when fighting for position.


Quick Reply: Overcoming tentative braking



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 03:30 AM.