YES IT IS that complicated.

I love DEs.

 

I would often use what I called the "expected pass signal". So, the process would go like this
1) Leave lots of space before we enter the corner
2) Time it well so that I catch up to the person very soon after full track out (you need to use the full track if you want to carry maximum momentum)
3) Get behind the person so you are in his mirrors. Don't get too close (this is DE, not racing)
4) Start the maneuver of pulling out from behind him and start the pass sequence (this needs to be done or else you will have to lift and then you lose momentum)
5) If you start to get overlap with his car and he doesn't give you the signal, then you have to back out (again, this is DE)

By doing #4 and #5, you get a few more seconds for the guy to take his hand off whatever it was on and get it out the window to give you a pass signal.

BTW: Paolo, at a DE, I would NOT go side by side with someone at the apex (even 2 car widths away) unless I knew the person and trusted him. Even then, I would fully expect to be having a LOT of explaining to do to the CI when my session was over. Again, it's a DE, not a race. Sure, you may have mad skillz, but if something unexpected happens like an animal darts across the track or a tire blows out, and you hit that person (or he hits you), you are going to have lots of regrets.

 

Didn't really mean to start a CR vs DE controversy here.......

I just never experienced this before in DE (being approached by the CI on some driver complaint)

then again....... I never run with Red drivers before either.....

I will just take full responsibility, since I am not an instructor and he was, so we can put this issue to rest......

Have a great week-end!.....

 

I ran into this problem at Roebling a few weeks ago. I was one of the faster ones in the instructor group and it was amazing how few other drivers were willing to give a point by anywhere other than on a straight. It was emphasized in the instructor meeting that if you don't feel comfortable giving/taking passes anywhere on the track, you should run in a different group. That message didn't get through.

 

I look at it this way.. It’s like amateur league softball: There are teams that are there to drink beer and socialize and those that are out to win. You have to play to the flavor of the game at hand. Nothing worse than having Mr AAA dropout show up and yell and scream at Cindy in accounting cuz she dropped the ball.

I’m sure there are a few asshats in the red group somewhere but I haven’t encountered any yet … Yes, there have been times when a red group driver had his head up his *** for a couple of turns, but quickly woke up and let me by. That’s just how DE goes, some folks just want to drive quickly, but well within their comfort zone. DE caters to the least common denominator.

If I don’t know the other driver or have a good sense of where his head is at (Race car? Driving ***** out?) I assume they are there to enjoy the scenery and give them plenty of latitude. So what if it takes a couple of turns to get by…. With friends it’s a different game, ill push them a little harder.

Palo, you seem like the kind of guy I’d like to have a beer with, so not directed to you, just more of a general observation.

 

Fred....how right you are, ditto that,.........I love these comments you guys come up with.....

 

Wow - that guy is a huge wuss for whining to the CI for going into a corner side-by-side. He pointed you by, so he should have backed off.

Confronted with guys like that, my attitude has changed over time. I now tell them - clearly and aggressively if appropriate - how ****ty their driving was. If you're too polite, then (a) they never learn, and (b) the CI will blame *you*.

p.s. always apologize later for bitching somebody out about poor driving!

 

Put am "X" on your car.

 

Brian P

Two great posts.

Fred C.

If only you saw that more often in our E races, my Rennpoints would look better...

to both of ya

 

Does this thread qualify for the ENZO label?

 

I am new to instructing and relatively new to DEs, and although you all say this stuff happens during DEs, I must be blessed, because this is surprising to me. My region encourages passing in the corners for black and red, they also point out that it is best for passer and passee to start/finish the pass during the braking zone at the latest, so there is minimal momentum loss for all involved and uninvolved. However, if the pass hasn't finished, a point-by is a contract and we continue with the pass through the corner, no worries.

In our region and other east coast regions I have not experienced this, weird!!

 

Rick, please read post #33.......

I do take offense on the Enzo comment, so let me just add.......

Instructors can make fun of students not getting it......

Everyone can cast judgment on the videos of the mistakes I or other racers have posted.......

But God forbid anything is said about the a Red run group driver.......

It seems drivers with instructor status are untouchable, the end all be all of drivers.....

If the mods feel like shutting this thread down, be my guest and just sweep it under the Red rug.......

 

I would not say it is the norm, but once you race stuff that happens in DE is just ho-hum. What you see as non-issue can send DE guy into code brown mode. It should not happen in higher run groups, but it does.

That is on reason I don't DE much anymore. If I am going to take the time to run on track I would rather just race and not deal with stuff like this. Of couse my 944 spec has so little hp that I can only get stuff done in the corners. At lesat in race group if it catch a slower turning car I can just drive by him where ever I feel safe. I don't need to worry that the he/she may get their panties in bunch about a pass.

 

Lighten up Francis.

You raise a good point and it serves the racers well to realize that we have become accustomed to cars flying everywhere around us, and have developed the mental focus to keep track of everything. Remember that even the best Red group driver is just that, a driver, and even though some might be faster than you in a hot lap, you are a racer, and that is all of their skills and much more.

 

Francis? Who is this Francis?

The truth is that Rick B. and I go back a long way, in fact he was the first porsche guy I met thru rennlist and has been one of my mentors during the years......
so he knows what I meant to say and I am sure he will give me his point of view at our next lunch or dinner......