Veloce Raptor

If I am driving their car, yes I will. If they are driving, I will always let them decide. I will tell them my opinions of the pluses and minuses of both approaches, and allow thhem to make the decision.

4porsh

When a student ask me if they could/should turn off psm/vsc/dsc I tell them if they can show me that they can drive smooth and hit all the marks then they will earn the chance to turn off the button. Most have many things to work on before turning the button off.

joe

winders

Earn the chance? I don't think so. Student's car...student's call. If the instructor does not like the students choice, he can bail out.

If I had a car with PSM, which I do, I would not drive with it on. Why would I want the car doing things behind my back? I want to know what effects my inputs have. I don't want them masked or fixed by the car. Nor do I want the car to try fix something it thinks is mistake that I am actually doing on purpose.

Scott

4porsh

I am speaking about new to semi-new track drivers that think they need to turn buttons off and buy sticky tires to go fast. Of course an advanced student can drive with the button off or on. If they are not listening to the instructor and driving out of control then by all means I will get out and they are free to not learn, drive bad, and maybe hurt themselves.
Non of my cars have psm/dsc but if they did I would turn them off. i even turn them off on rental cars rain or shine.

Ray S

New students have no business turning these systems off in my opinion. After they are signed off to solo they can experiment on there own or continue to work with an instuctor on mastering the skill they need to have (the smarter choice) to allow them to operate without these systems.

If they are green and my *** is on the line in the seat next to them, PSM stays on and that's not just my policy, many PCA regions instruct novice students to keep PSM on.

irysfan

Dave, thanks for kicking this off and for the great advices. I read through all of them and found them invaluable.

What's your take on "pre-requisites" that students need to focus on improving first before they advance to the next level? How do you segment students' skill levels? For example, what are the skills that an mid-level student needs to improve on first, before they move on to other skills e.g. optimizing slip angle, racecraft, etc.?

Veloce Raptor

That is a really good question. In many ways, it depends on the individual, how they learn, their personality type, what is motivating them in the sport, etc. However, to me, one of the most fundamental skills that requires dedication is line discipline. I see too may drivers, even at advanced levels, not tracking out all the way (for example). This is a great way to kill exit speed & bind up (and possibly cause instability in) the car. Another example is not looking anywhere near far enough ahead. And yet another example is downshifting the instant they get on the brakes. There are many more. So in many ways, the basics are where mid level students need to focus.

I believe that things like the above, as well as smooth heel/toe downshifting, left foot braking, driving effortlessly off line, making the transition from brakes to throttle perceptible more via engine sound than longitudinal G's, etc., are key differentiators as drivers advance...

onefastviking

The biggest in my mind, and I am sure Dave's too only it's so obvious it goes without mention many times, is being safe.
Safety is always the #1 importance to me when coaching and instructing and considering a student for advancement. I always take this further than most instructors discussing safe exit routes and preparation for the unknown. Also looking further ahead to see flags, other drivers, things on track, etc etc.
A great by product of this is that they also become better, or safer, drivers on the public roads as well.

Veloce Raptor

Yup. +1

Land Jet

Turning off PSM is no guaranty that it won't intervene. I had a hairy "ice mode" brake pedal on Friday at 150mph with PSM turned off. The brake pedal decided to push back when I needed it most. Luckily I had visualized this scenario in my head previously and what I would do in case of brake failure. There is an access road that connects to the skid pad and I was able to release the brake pedal and reapply while steering onto it. It saved my bacon, as the only alternative would have been the gravel trap and shaking hands with Mr. Tirewall.

Veloce Raptor

That isn't PSM...

Land Jet

Enlighten me, what was it?

Veloce Raptor

Just a quirk of ABS seen on many cars, with & without stability controls.

onefastviking

If the pedal pushed back then it was not "ice mode" either.
I agree with VR, ABS.

BostonDMD

Ice mode is when you press the brake pedal down and nothing happens...... at least that is what happened twice in my Cayman S, kind of scary moment.....