Veloce Raptor

Yes, sorry if I didn't articulate well initially.....

shustermeister

No coasting. Definitely no braking with the clutch depressed through the brake zone.
The brake is NOT an on/off switch - it is like a modulator. As VR says, that requires gradual pressure increase as you apply to get the car slowed down and gradual pressure decrease as you lift off. That said, gradual doesn't mean slow.
For the 4>2 downshift, I skip 3rd altogether, apply brakes with clutch engaged and in 4th gear (some engine braking, which if the clutch was depressed you wouldn't get any) until the car gets down to proper speed for safe downshift to 2nd, then heel-toe to 2nd.

quickxotica

Especially in a fast, heavy, softly-sprung street car (assuming your car is stock), at high speed you will feel much more in-control if you treat the brake pedal like a dimmer instead of a lightswitch. You still get from acceleration to full-effort braking quickly... just not immediately. Don't slap the pedal. Set the nose down gently.

Likewise when releasing brake pressure, don't let off all at once when you're entering a high-speed turn. Use gradual release to accomplish smooth weight transfer and thereby achieve the stable geometry and grip-levels that your (relative to a race car) soft & long-travel suspension would not otherwise provide.

stownsen914

I'm probably in the minority here, but I like to do direct 4-2, 5-3, and even 5-2 downshifts. It means waiting until a little later to initiate my downshift so I don't overrev when I engage the lower gear, and puts more emphasis on correct rev matching, but I still prefer it because I find it means less time with only one hand on the wheel. I'm most likely in the minority in my preference though.

Scott

himself

For me, 5-3 is a little easier to match than 4-2 due to gearing. That is, when you are at your terminal speed in 4th, you will need a bigger blip to match 2nd than you would for 3rd to 2nd. Similarly, the 5th to 3rd spread is a lot closer than 4th to 2nd. If you have a fairly developed heel-toe, you should be able to do 4-2 without problem. Whether it nets you any time or is really worth the effort remains to be seen.

All that being said, 1 blip and shift is generally better than 2. Especially if you release any braking pressure when you blip.

-td

ace996

Does sound like Monticello......love that track.

I usually go through each gear, at the end of the braking zone, with quick blips. I don't like skipping gears.

Veloce Raptor

In the video I posted i the other thread from MSR's 3.1, I go from 5 to 3 into Rattlesnake, and hit all gears, and I go 4 to 2 in the uphill hairpin (I think it's 7??) and hit all the gears.

sig_a

^^^
Braking forward is what I've always heard it referred to as.

I would rather downshift once to cut risk of mis-shift in half. Downside is it's tougher to match engine and wheel speed skipping a gear. Spooky feeling if the rear slips out when engine speed is too far below wheel speed.

Wet track condition is altogether different. I then down shift one gear at a time.

alexb76

No, at least not intentionally... it's happened a few times I gotto admit, but that was due to mis-shift, or mis-blip!

alexb76

Stock PASM suspension, use Sport mode on track.

Yes, agreed, trying to be smooth and do the transition right, however, it just takes practice and patience, and mental attitude that SMOOTHER IS FASTER!

CRex

In a 5-3 or 4-2 downshift I generally do the following:

1. Squeeze on the brakes from 50 to 80%, bring the car to about half the peak speed
2. Revs at this point are probably at 4k - depress clutch
3. Heel toe 5-4; then heel toe again 4-3 (clutch still depressed)
4. Release clutch, feather off the brakes and start turning in

My logic being:
1. I'm not great with the clutch work and releasing clutch in between the shifts introduces the probability of upsetting the car before turn-in
2. I'm still in the right gear (and revs) should unforeseen reason requires me to release the clutch and apply power
3. Understand I won't benefit from engine braking, but the lower wear and tear and stabler corner entry appears to be worth the tradeoff to me at least

I can definitely be convinced to go a different way since I'm very much in the learning phase, especially if there's a safety issue involved.

claykos

Doing a big part of your braking with the clutch depressed (which is what it sounds like) complete negates the effect of having a good LSD with lockup on decel which GREATLY helps stabilize the rear of the car under hard braking. Maybe I am misunderstanding and you don't have the clutch depressed for that long.

CRex

Claykos you didn't misread me. My clutch is basically depressed from the first downshift through the end.

I was looking for a response exactly along the lines of what you mentioned. I reason (more like speculate ) that the vast majority of braking is done in the initial 50% of the revs in high gear. By the time my clutch gets depressed the hardest part of braking (and hence LSD work) is over...

Is there logic here or am I deluding myself?

333pg333

^^If you're going to do that they why bother going down through the gears?

M758

I have done things both ways. They key is to be fast (overall lap time) and to be smooth. In certain situations a 5th to 3rd is easier or 4th to 2nd. Depends on the lenght of brake zone if it straight or curved and also importantly the peak speed in the lower gear. The biggest risk of skipping a grear is getting the timing wrong and overreving the lower gear. That could cause motor damage at worst or upset the balance of car making you slower. I find it when going from 5th to 2nd I need to hit at least one gear along the way. The jump is too far and never seem to get the 2nd gear smoothly engaged. hitting 3rd or 4th along the way helps keep my timming and ensures my 2nd gear rev match is better.