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Porsche Cup Car Driving Experience

 
Old 04-07-2011, 12:24 AM
  #16  
PedroNole
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Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
PCA licensing is pretty good but I could license in a low HP car and then show up the next weekend in a Cup Car.
You could do this in almost ANY series....
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:18 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor View Post
Translation: the economy sucks & Porsche can build more Cups than it can sell.
only in 2009.
they wont sell me one, unless i do patron, but i have no talent beside being a paid moving chicane for the winner.
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:57 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
To your point, PCA licensing is pretty good but I could license in a low HP car and then show up the next weekend in a Cup Car.
What difference does it make?

I drive a slow(by comparison) BMW well, I'm sure if I hopped in a cup car I would be on pace quickly.

To my point, regardless of car, a good or bad driver in a cup, boxster, or miata is still at the same skill level.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:56 AM
  #19  
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I have driven both stock class torsion bar 911s and cups a lot, and you really need to be a lot more careful in a cup (especially 997) as they can bite you before you know it. everything happens a lot quicker and faster.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:15 AM
  #20  
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And lets hope you have your own safety gear...they are making a nice little extra margin with renting out safety gear.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:39 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by 95m3racer View Post
And lets hope you have your own safety gear...they are making a nice little extra margin with renting out safety gear.
I saw that too. Don't worry though, I'm sure everyone who goes through the school will already have the full Porsche team kit from Stand21
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:41 AM
  #22  
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My wife thought that the $400 for the safety equipment was the whole cost for the 2 day event. It's a good thing she doesn't see my weekend DE expenses!
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:07 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by SG_M3 View Post
What difference does it make?

I drive a slow(by comparison) BMW well, I'm sure if I hopped in a cup car I would be on pace quickly.

To my point, regardless of car, a good or bad driver in a cup, boxster, or miata is still at the same skill level.
Disagree. I went from driving a D class 73 S for 4 years to a 993 RSR with 1700/2000# springs and not only is Mike correct in saying that things happen faster, they happen WAY faster. The speed of the transitions, the braking, the walls approaching you, all changes exponentially. The stiffness of the car is what's so unexpected and how it reacts to the tiniest of inputs. I could turn my 73 wheel 45 degrees quickly and the car would slowly make the turn just waiting for the suspension to slowly roll into place, if I were to to turn the GT car wheel 45 degrees quickly, I'm spinning. It took me a day to get any where near up to speed and in the year that I raced it, I never got close to the potential of the car.

And then to add more confusion, I started co driving with a guy in a 993 Cup and going from the stiff RSR to the relatively soft Cup it took me 2 test sessions to get re-acclimated to a softer car, I thought the back end was going to roll over it was so soft. Then I got used to it and started going.

Now I've gone back to my D stock 73 S and things are SO MUCH S L O W E R and softer. T1 to T3 at Road Atlanta takes forever not to mention how long the back straight is. I did best my personal best by 4.5 seconds there though compared to 5 years ago, so I guess going from a faster car to a slower car does help.

But going from a 'slow' car to a 'fast' car takes time for things to set in.
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:14 PM
  #24  
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I think the challenge is that it is IMO impossible for any race sanctioning body, especially at the amateur level, to issue licenses by car type. So there is no choice but to allow 914 drivers or 912E drivers with a valid license to show up with a lot more car next race when their oil well comes in.
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:38 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by analogmike View Post
I have driven both stock class torsion bar 911s and cups a lot, and you really need to be a lot more careful in a cup (especially 997) as they can bite you before you know it. everything happens a lot quicker and faster.
Originally Posted by Jarez Mifkin View Post
Disagree. I went from driving a D class 73 S for 4 years to a 993 RSR with 1700/2000# springs and not only is Mike correct in saying that things happen faster, they happen WAY faster. The speed of the transitions, the braking, the walls approaching you, all changes exponentially. The stiffness of the car is what's so unexpected and how it reacts to the tiniest of inputs. I could turn my 73 wheel 45 degrees quickly and the car would slowly make the turn just waiting for the suspension to slowly roll into place, if I were to to turn the GT car wheel 45 degrees quickly, I'm spinning. It took me a day to get any where near up to speed and in the year that I raced it, I never got close to the potential of the car.

And then to add more confusion, I started co driving with a guy in a 993 Cup and going from the stiff RSR to the relatively soft Cup it took me 2 test sessions to get re-acclimated to a softer car, I thought the back end was going to roll over it was so soft. Then I got used to it and started going.

Now I've gone back to my D stock 73 S and things are SO MUCH S L O W E R and softer. T1 to T3 at Road Atlanta takes forever not to mention how long the back straight is. I did best my personal best by 4.5 seconds there though compared to 5 years ago, so I guess going from a faster car to a slower car does help.

But going from a 'slow' car to a 'fast' car takes time for things to set in.
A Cup car is still a car, no different than any other race car. I guess I don't get why people make a big deal out of cup cars. Their dynamics are similar to any other car, the rear engine dynamic making more of a difference than being a cup car.

How would you rate your skill level coming into owning the 993 RSR? Of course things are going to happen quicker, the car is a much better chassis than a 73 and the power to weight difference is significant.

My thought is, a good driver(national level winning club racer) should be able to drive any platform quickly. Be it a spec miata or 997 cup.
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:46 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by SG_M3 View Post
A Cup car is still a car, no different than any other race car. I guess I don't get why people make a big deal out of cup cars. Their dynamics are similar to any other car, the rear engine dynamic making more of a difference than being a cup car.

How would you rate your skill level coming into owning the 993 RSR? Of course things are going to happen quicker, the car is a much better chassis than a 73 and the power to weight difference is significant.

My thought is, a good driver(national level winning club racer) should be able to drive any platform quickly. Be it a spec miata or 997 cup.
All true, Sean. However, regarding your last sentence: how many folks with a PCA licenses are "national level winning club racers" ?
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:49 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by SG_M3 View Post
A Cup car is still a car, no different than any other race car. I guess I don't get why people make a big deal out of cup cars. Their dynamics are similar to any other car, the rear engine dynamic making more of a difference than being a cup car.

How would you rate your skill level coming into owning the 993 RSR? Of course things are going to happen quicker, the car is a much better chassis than a 73 and the power to weight difference is significant.

My thought is, a good driver(national level winning club racer) should be able to drive any platform quickly. Be it a spec miata or 997 cup.
Agreed, a cup car is still a car. I no desire to drive/own/rent/school in a 996/997 cup, they don't do it for me. I liked that I was faster than 996 Cups and loved eating them for lunch. I think there's a bunch of people masking inabilities in the Cups and it shows. To each his own though.

Skill level? I was ready to go pro. Seriously though, I was ready for a new challenge I thought, thought I'd gotten all I could out of the 73. boy was I wrong when I stepped back into the 73 two weeks ago.

I see what you're saying, and yes a winning club racer should be able to adapt quickly. I feel sorry for the fool that has only progressed up the PDE schools and steps into the Cup car, it's going to be a rude awakening.
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:25 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor View Post
All true, Sean. However, regarding your last sentence: how many folks with a PCA licenses are "national level winning club racers" ?
Not many, no matter what association. I see what you are saying though. I'm just of the mind set, its the driver not the car.

Originally Posted by Jarez Mifkin View Post
I feel sorry for the fool that has only progressed up the PDE schools and steps into the Cup car, it's going to be a rude awakening.
Agreed, the learning curve is steep and expensive.


Wonder what the damage insurance or damage hold is on this school? Gotta think more than a few of these cars will be balled up, barber seems to eat a couple of cars each weekend, let alone a noob in a 997 cup lol
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:28 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by SG_M3 View Post
Not many, no matter what association. I see what you are saying though. I'm just of the mind set, its the driver not the car.


Oh, I agree with you fully. I think everyone in this thread is on the same page.

Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 05-22-2011 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:58 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by analogmike View Post
I have driven both stock class torsion bar 911s and cups a lot, and you really need to be a lot more careful in a cup (especially 997) as they can bite you before you know it. everything happens a lot quicker and faster.
And many people who hop in a Cup for their first exposure to a sequential gearbox have no idea what they are in for. A lot of the initial wear and tear a noob Cup driver introduces to the gearbox is being too careful. It's not a piece of equipment that suffers pussyfooting around lightly. The sequential gearbox requires commitment and many new Cup drivers don't commit to the shift in the way that they need to because they are used to the more gradual feed of a synchronized gearbox.

People think because the shift is in a straight line and they can ignore the clutch a lot of the time that it's simple. It's not really any harder than driving a synchronized gearbox once you learn how to do it, but it's a different skillset that one must acquire to drive these cars well.
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