joe1973

I was supposed to be at LRP today, but alas the track won't allow snow drifting experience driving. Event cancelled. However, this might have been fortunate because I heard the track has a new lower sound db policy of 88 ish. Is that right? Aren't even Caymans beyond that stock? My 9GT3 I believe is in the 110db range.

Does anyone know more about this policy? What type of P cars are within this limit? After market guys are certainly gong to be unhappy. Getting black flagged for noise could be a real pain.

CWhaley

This has been talked about in several threads this spring... Do a search: Loud Exhuast at Lime rock....


This is copied from Loud exhuast at Lime Rock thread post #49!
Here it is officially: 03/03/11

From: Skip Barber, Georgia Blades and Scott Mayo

As you know, exhaust noise has always been an issue at Lime Rock Park. We operate under a 1959 Court Injunction that stipulates: the number of weekends (10) that we can run unmuffled; other times we aren’t restricted (Tuesday afternoons); the decibel limit for all other track days; and bans Sunday track use. There have been no changes in the injunction and we don’t anticipate any court ordered reductions in noise levels. But we have growing criticism from some of our neighbors; some of which is justified:

1. Significant manufacturers like Porsche, Mercedes (AMG), and Ferrari are building street legal cars that at high speed and full throttle are “on the edge” of our required decibel limit. Given the right atmospheric conditions they go over the edge

2. There has been a major increase in the number of small manufactures building great track cars that are too noisy “out of the box”

3. More and more of our track users have cars in these two categories

4. The Skip Barber Racing School has steadily increased its use of “noisy” Miata’s rather than relatively quiet single-seaters

5. There are a small number of SCCA race cars, mostly Porsches that turn up at multiple club events for “cheap” practice. They almost always need to “test” their “improved” exhaust systems, making too much noise in the process

For 25 years the track set a limit 1 dB level below the injunction requirement to be safe and never exceed the mandated limit, unless the exhaust system broke. Cars were checked while stationary, before going on the track, 1000 RPM below the redline, and theoretically never got on track if too loud. There was no on-track testing to check for compliance as there is now. Porsches had the most trouble complying and it was common to have a Lime Rock exhaust system.

Over the years the 1 dB margin has vanished and on-track testing has replaced stationary checking. A common scenario is that a car runs 4 or 5 laps; is too noisy; comes in to correct the problem (often with steel wool); goes out again; the steel wool blows out after a few laps and it takes a few more laps to get the car in. Then the process starts all over and by the end of the day the car has run multiple noisy laps.

And now we have more complaints.

We are going to deal with this proactively:

· We are going to reduce the total noise

· We are going to have a sound engineer calculate the total reduction

· We are going to tell the town what we have done and we are going to stick with it

We are NOT:

· Going to court to try to change the injunction

· Going to complain about the injunction

· Going to criticize the states motor vehicle laws or the measuring system

· Going to make the economic argument that the town needs a viable track – they know that

We want to stand in front of the town and say:

1. The total noise is down_____%

2. All quiet days are quieter

3. Even the biggest professional race, the American Le Mans Series, is down 2 dB

We are going away from a “one size fits all” dB limit; assigning every club a limit we think is reasonable in terms of cost, impact on performance, and effect on entries. We know “reasonable” doesn’t always mean “easy” or “cheap.” The new limit, effective immediately for your club, PCA is 88 db.

The two big problem groups are the school’s Miatas and some Porsches, regardless of what club they run with. The school is fortunate – they have a new sponsor, Borla, who is building them all new complete exhaust systems. They have already tested under 83dB, their new limit at Lime Rock Park. This is a tremendous reduction – they have been running 88-89 dB, and they use the track more than 100 days each season.



Not so easy for some Porsches, so all Porsche clubs go down 1 dB; but we are going to rigidly enforce this. This 88dB limit is for non-race Porsche days – not for Porsche cars regardless of what club they are running with. So a Porsche limit would be:



88 dB Porsche Club Day

105 dB Porsche Race Day

87 dB BMW Club

86 dB PDA non-race

88 dB SCDA

88 dB Lime Rock Drivers Club

105 dB Tuesday afternoon Test & Tune

PLEASE don’t let anyone come for testing or a club day with an unchanged car that was too noisy last year. This isn’t about “beating the system” by short shifting or lifting off the throttle while being checked. This is about lending real meaning to the phrase, “We’re all in this together.”

Geoffrey

There is no way a stock street GT3 is 110db. Some of the newer cars with the sport exhaust option are very close to the limit and an aftermarket exhaust may be enough to push you over the limit. In general, if your car is stock, it will pass noise tests at the lower 88db limit.

mhm993

Billy R and Reiser's cars might be 110 db. No way your gt3 is, unless you put 6 more unmuffled cylinders somewhere.

Edit:Geoffry beat me to it. Hey, did you guys pay extra for the No Snow option next week?

Geoffrey

Reiser's RSR is the same as mine when we tested them at WGI at 104.xdb

It looks like for sure the Gods are smiling on HVR, granting us a sunny day (forecast).

joe1973

Thanks guys for the responses. Next event is that DE at LRP running with the club race TOWARDS the end of this month. Unmuffled event for the Friday and race weekend.

Brian P

If I were LRP, I'd try to argue about how the measurements are taken.

The geography of LRP basically has about 3/4 of the track pointed towards the hills where nobody lives and then the front straight which is nearby the town.

However, the person taking the sound measurements seems to sit near the pits and he measures the sound of people as they go down the front straight. So, if a driver decides to be friendly to the town and tries to put inserts into the tailpipe to point the sound away from the town, he is going to be busted due to sound. However, if the same person points his tailpipes TOWARDS the town, he will likely be safe from the sound police, but the town will probably be more annoyed.

What really needs to be done is to have two people monitoring sound. One person can sit anywhere on the track (preferably on the outside of the track) and see who is loudest. The other person should sit on the closest main street to the track and measure sound. If the overall noise from the track does not exceed X decibels, than everybody is fine. However, if it does exceed that limit, then you kick the loudest person off.

Geoffrey

Brian, don't kid yourself, the "sound engineers??" roam the track. I saw them take sound readings multiple places last year at our DEs.

Brian P

True... The main point I was trying to make is that the track should try to impose a standard. It seems like a fair argument would be to do the following

1) Using a Radio Shack analog sound meter, walk around the perimeter of the grounds of the track (i.e., on the local streets) and find the point that registers the loudest (use the ALMS weekend to help find that point)

2) Once that point is found, then take the sound meters used, and try to calibrate them to a reference sound (so that if the sound meter breaks, a new sound meter can be used)

3) Use several DEs to find the maximum tolerated noise. From 1 DE to the next, lower the maximum volume by 1 DB per DE.

My basic guess is that if most drivers point their tailpipes to the paddock rather than to the street, the town of Lime Rock would be happy. Perhaps I'm wrong, but at least there would be a scientific way to help make everybody happy rather than relying on the "sound engineers" (and I agree with quoting that phrase)

Geoffrey

Obviously you've given this a lot of thought and what you say makes a lot of sense.

Brian P

Yes, unfortunately, what I say makes way too much obvious sense, which makes me believe this already been proposed. If so, then it means that the town has objected it, and therefore the town is using the current measurement scheme to get rid of the track, not to lower the overall noise.

Given that, it makes sense to figure out the mechanism the town is using to measure noise and then trying to circumvent it even if it means increasing the amount of noise being broadcast to the town. It's sad that it comes to a lose-lose situation rather than a win-win situation.

rockitman

I am assuming the new 991 GT3 even without sports exhaust button engaged, will exceed the 88 dB noise limit ? Is their anything that can be added/affixed to the tail pipe on the stock exhaust to get it to comply ? I was thinking about joining the LR drivers club, but will not consider it if my stock exhaust does not pass. What's worse, what if you spend all that money to join and a year or two out, they drop the limit even further ? Damn tree hugggers. Looking for advice other than avoiding LRP to begin with.

marcus1249

Rockitman, there were 2 991 GT3's on the track on Saturday and no issues at all, actually much quieter than most of the other cars out there including mine, I've been going to LRP the last few years and have never seen other than heavily modified street cars and cup cars have an issue with the db limit

rockitman

That is encouraging news Marcus. One issue long term with the drivers club, who is to say that the town couldnt ultimately shutter the place ? I don't think they will refund the $55k initiation fee if it was closed.

marcus1249

That's an understandable concern, though lime rock is what put lakeville on the map, for any complaining there might be its a huge revenue driver for the town, that and I'm sure more than a few of the wealthy residents are members. I get your trepidation though, might there be a clause in the membership agreement that allows for a partial refund were your membership be nullified? (say in the first 5 years)