333pg333

Hmm, I'm not so sure. I'd like to see it again. I think if he was doing it time and time again he would have had a lot more attention paid to this in the commentary box...and we had decent commentary down here, plus received a penalty.

Larry Herman

+1. I kind of like the push to pass (or block) button that Indy cars have. You only get X number of presses per race. The final few laps between Tony Kanaan and Simona de Silvestri were great. Tony meted out his "passes" just right so that he had just enough for blasts up the front straight for the final 5 laps. If he had miscounted, Simona would have been right by him. Good strategy & good drama.

mark kibort

I dont know, i get kind of a kick of them talking about the side show circus technology changes. I just keep on thinking, "what will they think of next! "

#1, they did show the cars not in line, but side by side. no difference in top speed by the end of the straight. in a draft, you would think there would be too, but that doesnt seem to really show much increase in speed, and if it does, usually the overtaking car got a run off the corner. on a oval , there seems to be much more of an advantage that is seen
#2, do you think 100lbs of downforce in the rear, does any decernable ange of attach or ride height change in the rear? looks like a very minor change . at first glance its near equivilant to a 5 degree wing angle change on most of the big wing cars we run, which for our cars would be a lot.

mark kibort

Yes, the effect of 10lbs of drag at 380mph would be 10hp.

However, if the drag was 10lbs at 190mph, then it would be 100lbs at 380mph, or at a cost of 100hp to drive it. and, if the car had a top speed of 190mph aero limited, at 700hp, then at 380mph, the hp required to reach that top speed would be 5600hp.

JustinL

The "2nd move" has been going on for a number of years and is generally accepted in F1 racing. The first move is usually a sharp move towards the defensive line to cover the trailing car, then the trailing car switches back to the racing line and the leader slowly drifts wide again to setup the corner. I don't really like it, and I've wondered why the trailing car doesn't try to make this second move look more like a block by staying more inside.

The DRS sure didn't look very effective in the draft, but I think it's big advantage is when the trailing car pulls out from the draft. The wall of air he hits won't be as severe and may make the pass a bit easier to complete.

mark kibort

again, this wall of air is only worth 5hp to the dropping flap. as we saw, i dont hink this is eough to do anything in the passing relm. Vittel had run 1 second a lap faster than everyone else and didnt even use any of the new systems to his advantage. I think that drafting at 180mph has to be the only advantage they really need , and even that, doesnt alow for them to get that much more momemtium to make a pass on a road course. if they want more passing, get put some fenders over the tires and allow some bumping!

Rich Sandor

I'm pretty sure they are shedding way more than just 100lbs of downforce with the DRS at top speed.

PPo

I think we should wait a few races to make a judgement call on DRS and KERS. Too early to really judge, and Albert Park is not the track that it would make a big difference. Think about the boring Tilke tracks with the long straights... they *MAY* help there... Malaysia should be interesting.

But despite some posts that claim differently, there was absolutely some passes this weekend that where made very easy because of the combination of the two. Button coming back up the grid comes to mind, I forgot who he passed, but he simply drove around him using KERS and DRS.

The problem I have with both DRS and KERS, is the pass seems so artificial... the driver just ends up driving around them before a corner, and the chance to defend is marginalized by the speed differential going into the breaking zone.

Perhaps F1 needs a competition yellow! LOL!

Jarez Mifkin

I think everyone has missed the biggest point in this thread, VR and Kibort AGREE on something!

mark kibort

I wonder. they quoted the F1 engineers as saying 100lbs of downforce being shedded.

50mm opening, and a 3 ft long wing? I dont think it could be much more than that, do you? certainly by the lack of effect it had by side by side racing, i would say it might be pretty close to right on. If you look at the frontal area of an F1 car an calculate out its total drag figure, it cant be very much at say , 100 to 150mph during the passing zones as compared with the HP available.

heck, at 190mph for a street race car, 400hp is used to drive just the drag. F1s are probably half the frontal area, but 2x drag Cd. so call it around 800lbs of drag. 10lbs of reduction, isnt going to effect much, when another 400hp is free and available for acceleration over such a short distance and period of time.

Larry Herman

I don't quite see it that way. The passing problem in F1 is ridiculous. There are not too many other forms of motor racing where a car that is 2 seconds a lap slower can hold off the faster car for a prolonged number of laps.

Think about PCA racing. A car that is 2 seconds a lap faster than you would probably not have to wait for more than a corner or 2, assuming that they just didn't blow by as they came up on you.

mark kibort

No, they need the blue flag!

as far as KERS and DRS, you make the call. what had more of an effect, 10lbs of drag reduction, so say 5hp , or 80hp for push for pass button.

I agree. push for pass, driving around someone with 80 more hp, how is that racing. again i say, put on some fenders and lets see some rubb'n!

Veloce Raptor

HA!