iPad and Traqmate
04-27-2011, 11:36 PM
#32
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The coolest and best coordination of lat g's (and steering input) that indicate and illustrate handling balance (under/oversteer) is Bob Knox's scatter plot shown in his new book.
Capable only of being illustrated by interpretation software that allows math channel construction, this plot can show and identify prevailing chassis balance balance very nicely. Jorge Segers also has a nice worksheet in MoTeC for that.
The way to do it in TM is simple. Use video or install a logged TM channel to observe the steering input angle, turn down the "Filter" and then zoom in to look at lat g's.
I have seen corrections in Race-Keeper's software that made me go back and look at the video to confirm. Yes, you can see it in the lat g trace.
Capable only of being illustrated by interpretation software that allows math channel construction, this plot can show and identify prevailing chassis balance balance very nicely. Jorge Segers also has a nice worksheet in MoTeC for that.
The way to do it in TM is simple. Use video or install a logged TM channel to observe the steering input angle, turn down the "Filter" and then zoom in to look at lat g's.
I have seen corrections in Race-Keeper's software that made me go back and look at the video to confirm. Yes, you can see it in the lat g trace.
04-28-2011, 11:14 AM
#33
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The five books I recommend are (in the order of making your head hurt, more hurt later in the list 
):
1) Buddy Fey, "Data Power" - the Bible. The first one to give performance targets for individual performance and the best foundation for learning what what you're seeing means and how to fix it. Easy reading. No BS, no "war stories," just good, solid information from a pioneer in the field. Out of print for a LONG time, priced from $200-$500, IF you can find it. Not particularly relevent to current technology, but the fundamentals still hold true. Check out his blog.
2) Chris Brown, "Making Sense of Squiggly Lines" - A little MoTeC-centric, but again, a very "approachable" tome that focuses on driver engineering through the intelligent use of data. Chris' explanations are wonderful and the premise of the book (as indicated by the title) is well executed. Probably the best single book for learning what to look at FIRST for the Club and Track Day driver. Highly recommended! http://cb-racing.com/book_ordering.html
3) Graham Templeman, "The Competition Car Data Logging Manual" - Somewhat dated and Race Technology-centric, but good info on expanding systems with basic sensors. Furnishes a lot of illustrated examples of data. One of the first books written by a competitor who wanted to know more and subsequently filled a gaping hole in the contemporary (2008) knowledge base from a Club racer's perspective. Easy to read. On Amazon.
4) Bob Knox, "A Practical Guide to Race Car Data Analysis" - To listen to Bob talk, I was initially concerned this would be way beyond "practical" for even me, an experienced professional coach who utilizes data as an objective way to evaluate and craft improvements in driver performance. I've been very pleasantly surprised and found several nuggets of NEW information that helped me better understand what I was looking at and what I should be looking for. The best for showing how a fully sensored car can guide an intepretation methodology that focuses on driver improvement. Chris's book on steroids and not for the feint of heart, but easier reading and more practical than the second "bible," Jorge Seger's work. http://www.f1600series.com/news/364-...-analysis.html
5) Jorge Segers, "Analysis Techniques for Race Car Data Acquisition" I purchased this book through SAE before I went to a two-day seminar led by Jorge. My head exploded. During and after the seminar, my headache was assuaged and I began to see through the math to better understand how the manipulation of the information yielded certain results and were displayed in a particularly useful way. While I was dumb and mute the first day of the seminar covering car engineering, I was able to take away quite a bit from the driver engineering aspects of the book. The man is a gifted engineer, the youngest lead car engineer for an FIA GT team ever at the time. His fresh way of looking at the information yields additional value for those looking to learn at the highest, most complex level. http://books.sae.org/book-r-367
):1) Buddy Fey, "Data Power" - the Bible. The first one to give performance targets for individual performance and the best foundation for learning what what you're seeing means and how to fix it. Easy reading. No BS, no "war stories," just good, solid information from a pioneer in the field. Out of print for a LONG time, priced from $200-$500, IF you can find it. Not particularly relevent to current technology, but the fundamentals still hold true. Check out his blog.
2) Chris Brown, "Making Sense of Squiggly Lines" - A little MoTeC-centric, but again, a very "approachable" tome that focuses on driver engineering through the intelligent use of data. Chris' explanations are wonderful and the premise of the book (as indicated by the title) is well executed. Probably the best single book for learning what to look at FIRST for the Club and Track Day driver. Highly recommended! http://cb-racing.com/book_ordering.html
3) Graham Templeman, "The Competition Car Data Logging Manual" - Somewhat dated and Race Technology-centric, but good info on expanding systems with basic sensors. Furnishes a lot of illustrated examples of data. One of the first books written by a competitor who wanted to know more and subsequently filled a gaping hole in the contemporary (2008) knowledge base from a Club racer's perspective. Easy to read. On Amazon.
4) Bob Knox, "A Practical Guide to Race Car Data Analysis" - To listen to Bob talk, I was initially concerned this would be way beyond "practical" for even me, an experienced professional coach who utilizes data as an objective way to evaluate and craft improvements in driver performance. I've been very pleasantly surprised and found several nuggets of NEW information that helped me better understand what I was looking at and what I should be looking for. The best for showing how a fully sensored car can guide an intepretation methodology that focuses on driver improvement. Chris's book on steroids and not for the feint of heart, but easier reading and more practical than the second "bible," Jorge Seger's work. http://www.f1600series.com/news/364-...-analysis.html
5) Jorge Segers, "Analysis Techniques for Race Car Data Acquisition" I purchased this book through SAE before I went to a two-day seminar led by Jorge. My head exploded. During and after the seminar, my headache was assuaged and I began to see through the math to better understand how the manipulation of the information yielded certain results and were displayed in a particularly useful way. While I was dumb and mute the first day of the seminar covering car engineering, I was able to take away quite a bit from the driver engineering aspects of the book. The man is a gifted engineer, the youngest lead car engineer for an FIA GT team ever at the time. His fresh way of looking at the information yields additional value for those looking to learn at the highest, most complex level. http://books.sae.org/book-r-367
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04-28-2011, 12:19 PM
#35
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03-08-2013, 08:15 PM
#36
4) Bob Knox, "A Practical Guide to Race Car Data Analysis" - To listen to Bob talk, I was initially concerned this would be way beyond "practical" for even me, an experienced professional coach who utilizes data as an objective way to evaluate and craft improvements in driver performance. I've been very pleasantly surprised and found several nuggets of NEW information that helped me better understand what I was looking at and what I should be looking for. The best for showing how a fully sensored car can guide an intepretation methodology that focuses on driver improvement. Chris's book on steroids and not for the feint of heart, but easier reading and more practical than the second "bible," Jorge Seger's work. http://www.f1600series.com/news/364-...-analysis.html
The stuff in there is really interesting, it is not too complicated (for me at least 
) and very practical. Can't wait to actually try some of the stuff out (and to help some of my friends with the analysis of their data). I would recommend this book to anyone who wants to learn about data analysis for the use of driver/laptime improvement.
5) Jorge Segers, "Analysis Techniques for Race Car Data Acquisition" I purchased this book through SAE before I went to a two-day seminar led by Jorge. My head exploded. During and after the seminar, my headache was assuaged and I began to see through the math to better understand how the manipulation of the information yielded certain results and were displayed in a particularly useful way. While I was dumb and mute the first day of the seminar covering car engineering, I was able to take away quite a bit from the driver engineering aspects of the book. The man is a gifted engineer, the youngest lead car engineer for an FIA GT team ever at the time. His fresh way of looking at the information yields additional value for those looking to learn at the highest, most complex level. http://books.sae.org/book-r-367
03-09-2013, 07:53 AM
#37
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Good old thread!
Actually, the OP topic may be more relevant, soon...
Also, VBOX Sport now had passed Apple's App Store approval process.
It's coming, finally...
Actually, the OP topic may be more relevant, soon...
Also, VBOX Sport now had passed Apple's App Store approval process.
It's coming, finally...
03-09-2013, 09:05 AM
#38
Drifting
Interesting
http://www.videovbox.co.uk/index.php...box-sport.html
SO like a super Harry's track timer? I use an external GPS module now - sometimes don't get the trigger - but for the most part pretty helpful
http://www.videovbox.co.uk/index.php...box-sport.html
SO like a super Harry's track timer? I use an external GPS module now - sometimes don't get the trigger - but for the most part pretty helpful
03-09-2013, 10:05 AM
#39
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Yes, but I find the analysis, especially comparisons, odious and problematic on HLT, which is why, other than as a lap timer, I can't recommend it.
I'll be interested in how it "integrates" with HLT. Clearly there is a linkage. I think HLT is made redundant by this and prefer Circuit Tools to slice and dice the data.
What really piques my interest is the future integration of Racelogic's Predictive Lap Timing display into an iOS device.
The VBOX Sport is about the same price as the AiM Solo. I get my demo soon.
I'll be interested in how it "integrates" with HLT. Clearly there is a linkage. I think HLT is made redundant by this and prefer Circuit Tools to slice and dice the data.
What really piques my interest is the future integration of Racelogic's Predictive Lap Timing display into an iOS device.
The VBOX Sport is about the same price as the AiM Solo. I get my demo soon.
Last edited by ProCoach; 03-09-2013 at 10:43 AM.
03-09-2013, 03:47 PM
#40
Yes, but I find the analysis, especially comparisons, odious and problematic on HLT, which is why, other than as a lap timer, I can't recommend it.
I'll be interested in how it "integrates" with HLT. Clearly there is a linkage. I think HLT is made redundant by this and prefer Circuit Tools to slice and dice the data.
I'll be interested in how it "integrates" with HLT. Clearly there is a linkage. I think HLT is made redundant by this and prefer Circuit Tools to slice and dice the data.
What really piques my interest is the future integration of Racelogic's Predictive Lap Timing display into an iOS device.
The VBOX Sport is about the same price as the AiM Solo. I get my demo soon.
The VBOX Sport is about the same price as the AiM Solo. I get my demo soon.
My 2 cents
03-09-2013, 05:09 PM
#41
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With as many failures, partial and corrupted log files that occur with HLT, anything would be an improvement, IMO.
This is what Harry himself has to say about it. http://www.gps-laptimer-forum.de/vie...t=1029&start=0
I think this VBOX Sport is a waste of money, and if you want to spend some cash on a laptimer with logging capabilities you are better of getting the AIM Solo (even without OBD link), because it has a tri-axial accelerometer on top of the GPS module, it has everything in 1 small device, the user interface is fantastic, and the infos you get on the display are also very clear ( + predictive lap time mode, summary when you stop in the pits, automatic track selection/detection and the RS2 software which is a very powerful tool IMO).
My 2 cents
My 2 cents
That capability for the Solo was taken out early on in the firmware update process for the SOLO only. The Solo DL (OBD-II/CAN link, $699) does log accelerometer (along with GPS-derived g) data, IIRC.
The VBOX Sport will have a similarly valuable user interface available through your iOS device, including a very, very good predictive lap timing feature, lap review and, through Circuit Tools, automatic track recognition through the Racelogic database already pre-loaded.
Although RS2 is a very powerful tool (and RS3 is going to be ten times better, IMO), many are challenged by (and few exploit) the incredible configuration and display options of RS2. Circuit Tools has simpler, pre-loaded templates that are easier to use for some folks and these make it very easy to "find time."
I don't car what kind of data logging people use, which is why I sell (and use) everything from Traqmate to MoTeC, including AiM, Race Technology, Race-Keeper and Racelogic (VBox). You pay your money and you make your choice.
There is no wrong one.
03-09-2013, 05:43 PM
#42
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Horses for courses and different preferences for different people. It's most important to get something!
03-09-2013, 05:58 PM
#43
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What I like about tech is that the price goes down and the quality/features/ease of use keep going up.
We're the winners here.
We're the winners here.
03-09-2013, 07:22 PM
#45
As one of the larger AiM dealers in the US, I can assure you that the Solo ($399) does NOT have tri-axial accelerometer capability, only GPS-derived lat and long G logging capability, same as the VBox Sport ($429).
That capability for the Solo was taken out early on in the firmware update process for the SOLO only. The Solo DL (OBD-II/CAN link, $699) does log accelerometer (along with GPS-derived g) data, IIRC.
That capability for the Solo was taken out early on in the firmware update process for the SOLO only. The Solo DL (OBD-II/CAN link, $699) does log accelerometer (along with GPS-derived g) data, IIRC.
http://www.aim-sportline.com/eng/pro...ifications.htm
Here it clearly states both have the accelerometer.
This is a screenshot I just took of my Race Studio install with my AIM Solo connected:
