Jarez Mifkin

[QUOTE=carreracoupe997;8285562]Did you look at the link I provided?

mark kibort

Yes that would be total toe because we are
Measuring to both sides

carreracoupe997

Yes, I did look at the charts. Thank you. Confused? Absolutely.

mark kibort

It really depends on the car set up and even driver

For example weisach rear ends like slight toe out or 0 toe to help the car rotate. When I recently reset my new racer with o rear toe it behaved like a different car . Certainly worth experimenting with

e

himself

See above suggestions- reposted below. As VR said, a little toe-out up front, a little toe-in in the rear.

As Mark said, for angle, it doesn't matter if you have 16" or 18" wheels, but linear measures will change based on wheel diameter - that is, moving 2MM won't result in the same toe angle for wheels of different sizes.

-td

TheOtherEric

Yes, my bad, I should have said Radius not Diameter. Thanks.

I agree there should be no disagreement, but there is!! Problem is that when people specify Toe in inches, they also need to include on what size wheel, or the diameter of the tire bulge where it was measured. But people never do that, leaving us to guess at their toe settings. If we all just stated toe in degrees, there'd be no confusion.

As you can see, "toe in inches" is a pet peeve of mine. Kind of like referring to pressure in "lbs."

mark kibort

good point! I understand now. I never thought used radius for this "rough" direction of toe levels.
wouldnt you measure the front and rear of the tire, thus using diameter? maninly because you are using two consistant points on the rim or tire. using a center and an edge would be difficult to capture, but I get the confusion.
so, yeah, keep it in degrees! figure it out anyway you can operate a ruler and calculator.

himself

Here is my conversion table. Password is: toe.

-td

mdrums

Here are the setting I've been using...PLEASE give me your thoughts and opinions:

2009 Carrera S. GT3 Cup Lower Control Arms, Sport PASM, 18" CCW wheels, Toyo R888

FRONT
zero toe....did use to run .02 degrees toe out per side
-2.3 degrees Camber per side

REAR
.14 degrees toe in per side
-1.9 degrees cmaber per side

Lemming

Thanks, useful stuff in that link!

himself

Settings are fine, especially if you use the car on the street at all. FWIW, those are almost what I run on the GT3...
-td

carreracoupe997

Thank you...That is great the way you put in your im size.

mark kibort

Does the carrera use the weisach rear end ? since it can toe out, under acceleration and turns, maybe this is why you need that much toe in in the rear. thats .3 degrees of toe in. not huge, but i guess if you are a little loosey goosey, its a good way to control that tendancy. so basically 0 toe in front.


Interesting. in 928 world, these dont mean anyting to me, nor would my settings be any benefit to you guys.

Droops83

Mark,

I find it interesting that you don't eliminate the "Weissach" rear end effect on a full race 928. The Weissach rear end uses a flexible control arm as one of the rear control arms that is designed to deflect and induce toe-in of the outside rear wheel under heavy braking . . . to counteract the tendency of rubber bushed street suspension that would normally cause the wheel to toe OUT under braking. Seems to me that you would have all solid bushings/arms on a full race car, run a bit of toe-in for stability and be done with it. Or am I missing something here?

BTW 993s used a similar arrangement in the rear to the 928 ("kinematic" toe, uses an extra soft bushing instead of the flexy arm) but the 996-997 do not.

mark kibort

The slower guys all have "pinned" the Weisach. Mark A, ended up going full race, and didnt notice much of a differnce when changing in that functional regard.

No, no pinning for me. actually, the 928 is dead nuts straight and stable under braking, and had a big push as well as a resistant to rotate the car under heavy trail braking. a little additional toe out vs my original toe in setting, seemed to fixe that issue. now, im quite pleased and probably wouldnt change anything It has a greater ability to rotate the car now, and the exit speeds are faster with the push gone as well. Also added were more splitter and more wing to help in the higher speed corners. 1:36.1 at laguna for a 25 year old street car with 50 extra HP bolted on, and 15 year old bolt on suspension with used tires. (all original everything, bushings, airbox, radiator, brakes, no coolers, vents, no ECU changes, all stock) ask B. Sofranas how my car was handling when he was behind me in his 2006 GT3 race car.

I wondered what happened to the design with the 993s going to the 996-7s. I assumed they kept that design. why did they change? for the reasons you stated. too much flex and slop, especially with all the weight and movemet in the rear of the car. Hey, I do agree that a proper set up would be to put all racing joints in the car. But, just think how long it would take me to find the right settings! I think much of my suspension set up is damped by friction of the bushings and bumpstops (seriously) if I removed it all, I would be lost.