fatbillybob

John,

I was just thinking if there was a HANSish collar you would have the ultimate Issac. He could make the collar like a hutchens hybrid or the R3. Those devices strap to you so the issue of belts popping out is not as much as issue. I'm no engineer just a dumb monkey there are probably other issues I have no clue about like Mohr's circle. It seems like there is a real intrinsic advantage to dampers over a neck snapping rope.

ltc

I am sure legal issues far outweigh the technical issues behind the creation and adoption of such a combined device.

I am still somewhat surprised at the choice of a tether vs a damper. It just seems so incredibly obvious which is the correct solution to the problem.

jcb-memphis

So where can I get the Isaac...and can anything be used with 3point stock belts in addition to harnesses?

TIA


5w-40 and 5w-50....



Jeff

ltc

You can't get a diesel tow vehicle here....

http://isaacdirect.com/

333pg333

So for the people in the cheap seats...are we to read that the Isaac is the best choice currently on the market?

RedlineMan

Hey;

As far as I know (and please offer information to the contrary if you have it), the Isaac performs higher in more categories and works more effectively under more different circumstances than any other device. I know that the Hutchens Hybrid made great improvements over the original model (which wasn't hard, in reality), but I have not seen any numbers on it. I'm not sure if they have been published. I do not believe it outperforms the Isaac to any great extent, if at all.

In terms of performance numbers, Isaac is hard to argue against. I think I need to get one and "try it out" so that I can speak with some authority. Forgive me if I decline to activate any of them in a dynamic situation, though.

RedlineMan

Indeed;

It would be interesting to see how such a device would play out.

924RACR

Define "best."

For me, best includes that I'm able to race with it. I have an ISAAC, and raced with it again this weekend (as opposed to "used" it - BTDT too).

But it will become no longer the best in another year, when H+N devices (per the current SCCA GCR) will be required to be SFI 38.1-compliant.

Sadly, while I've been very happy with my ISAAC, I'll be going to a HANS then - best fit for my new car, I'm pretty sure, and still the proven solution; ISAAC has nothing on the drawing board that I'm aware of that will meet 38.1 and allow me to race with it. So 7 years of good racing with ISAAC will come to a close.

Professor HANS

>>The baseline problem with the HANS concerning its performance is that you can't necessarily keep it under the belts. To adopt that design platform is to defeat the bedrock performance advantage of the Isaac. I would guess this is a compromise that Isaac is not willing to make. To some extent, that might be a shame, as the Isaac certainly has many other advantages in performance beyond that.

I don't want to start a pissing contest here but the "facts" quoted above are not the truth. Mr. Baker likes to quote his own test results from years ago and ignore scientific, third party results. In 4,000 NASCAR impacts NOT ONCE has the HANS Device come out from under the belts. Mr. Baker posts 8-year old video on his website of the HANS Device "slipping out from the belts". The test video he plays is from a dummy with a solid aluminum chest - is your chest solid metal? If so, Mr. Baker's video may have some relevance. If not you should consider NASCAR's experience base.

Regarding ultimate performance I think it's enough to say over 110,000 people choose HANS. Perhaps Mr. Baker has sold a few hundred units and I congratulate him on this achievment. But there is a reason his product is not SFI or FIA approved, and that's because it does not meet the minimum standards required by these tests. Perhaps Mr. Baker will tell you his product meets other standards, you can decide if they are important to your safety. The top safety experts in the world, including those in Formula 1, WRC, NASCAR, USAC, NHRA, V8 Supercars, IHRA and many others recommend you use an SFI or FIA certified device as part of your safety package. We think that's good advice. If you can't get comfortable in a HANS Device consider another SFI approved device, but don't consider something that's not proven. Thank you.

ltc

Professor HANS,
Thank you for posting. I do have a question which I hope you can help me with.

Apart from the HANS, is there any other H&N restraint which is FIA certified?

I have read (what I believe to be) all of the FIA specs, and it would appear as though the spec were written around the HANS device, making it virtually impossible for any other device (SFI38.1 compliant or not) to mee the spec and therefore become FIA certified?

If so, would this mean that a new FIA spec would need to be created in order for a non HANS device to become FIA certified?

As for the belts slipping, there has been much discussion and data over the years regarding the ability of the HANS device to keep the belts in place.
This can be tracked thru the various revisions of the HANS device over the years (wings, no wings, friction material, no friction material) as well as belts (standard 3" belts, HANS specific 2"-3" shoulder harnesses from various suppliers).
Perhaps all of these changes could lead one to assume that the issue of keeping the HANS under the belts in various impacts has been a focus of continuous improvement design?

It is therefore reasonable to assume that a layman would question the presence of an issue (keeping the HANS under the belts), based on the above designs.

As for non NASCAR impacts where a HANS device was used, I do seem to remember someone posting pictures from Robert Kubica's crash (Montreal?) where his HANS device had come (partially) out from under his belts.

I do realize that a H&N restraint is merely a single component of a comprehensive and overall safety system design (e.g. side nets, full containment seats, proper belt geometries, etc).
I am grateful for the contributions that have been made to these discussions in this forum over the years and hope they continue to be both helpful and constructive.

In conclusion, as a matter of full disclosure, I owned a HANS, Isaac and Leatt H&N restraint, although I no longer drive/race with these.

Plavan

Just an FYI-
I came across this info a few weeks ago. There will be new "M6 Attachment Hardware" for the R3. It was designed to work on the "predrilled" helmets also. There is also an unristricted side to side movement tether that you can incorporate with the new R3 mounting hardware. No more noisy D rings hitting your helmet (my only complaint with the R3).

They are thinking it will be ready for shipment in Nov.

Anyone know when the Arai helmets will be coming out with the new Snell rating?

ApexPerformance

Last we heard, SA2010 Arai models are supposed to be coming out sometime in November.

Plavan

Thank you! I'll be ordering from you as soon as they do.

Circuit Motorsports

There is a new head restraint standard from the FIA

http://www.safetysolutionsracing.com...-from-fia.html

Safety Solutions Hybrid is the latest FIA rated device.

924RACR

I don't agree, for one, with the "one-size-fits-all" design concept...