multi21

I've seen it in my students and in myself as well. I've also seen it in different sports. My daughter had a soccer coach who would yell out orders all game long. Pretty soon it was like the coach had a remote to control all 11 of her players on the field.

Their next coach only spoke when direction was needed and let the players play unless they made a mistake or made a great play.

What I do sometimes with advanced students right around the 3rd session of the day is that I will start a conversation about something totally unrelated to what we're doing. It could be "so what do you think the Fed is going to do about interest rates later this year" or something so off the chart that they can't help but have a mind shift to the topic. IF they can still hit their marks and drive consistantly after we start the conversation, then I know I don't have to say much from then on.

RickBetterley

You know how so often you are in the zone? Some folks have a hard time getting out of their (not so good) zone and into the right zone.
It takes a lot of repetitions to break bad habits.
He needs more time with you helping him.

Veloce Raptor

Thanks everyone for their observations and comments. Yes, I believe this person THOUGHT he was driving flat out when I observed him later in the day, but as usual, it was the car more than the driver. When I was in his right seat, we were noticeably faster at apex & track out in those 3 corners my way (as observed by me watching his RPM's before & after).

And yes, the Cicero quotation is very apt. Those who fail to heed the lessons of history etc etc etc.








Professional Racing and Driving Coach

quickxotica

This would be my guess too. I've had many students who were faster with me in the car telling them what to do. They trust you explicitly and execute your instructions without really "knowing" it will work. The key test is to shut up for the last 2 laps and see if they can sustain the new pattern of inputs without your voice prompts. Some can. Some can't.

Like others said, the ingrained habits of very experienced drivers are usually the hardest to change.

todinlaw

+1 on this point. That is why they should buy Data Loggers so they can prove it to themselves. I think at the limit of a cars capability you will get into a little sawing at the wheel, but not the stamping of the pedals, just my view, I know when I am at the limit it can be a little toss and catch, but not with the brake and gas.

VR your student is not convinced as to what is the fastest way around the track. Part of that could be because of inconstant messages he has or is getting from different instructors. I would not take blame for that student.

Veloce Raptor

FYI, this individual had a data system in the car, but it was not turned on while I was in the right seat. I am not sure why, didn't ask, don't care....

In one of the corners in question, I had also recommended 2nd gear rather than 3rd, in order to get more rotation with less understeer. He would not do it, and insisted it was slower to downshift to 2nd & then have to quickly upshift again at track out.

To quote Cool Hand Luke: some men you just can't reach...









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

4porsh

I hear ya, sometimes i keep "The Auctioneer technique" ON so i can stay alive.

mark kibort

how about getting video of him in the car with you and without for a later view together! with lap times, that would certainly sink in I would think.

todinlaw

and the famous other quote same movie "what we have here is a failure to communicate"

mglobe

Not sure what you can do about this sort of behavior. Some folks just don't want instruction. Others are more open. I rode with an advanced driver recently and suggested he try a driving style he didn't like. I said "lets just try it to see how it works for you. You don't need to feel like you have to drive that way all the time, just give it a go and see". Being a guy who is open to learning, he tried it. I'm really now sure how he felt about the experience, but at least he tried it out. Personally, I'm always willing to give a suggestion an honest effort, and then later make a judgement on how it worked out. I've learned a lot that way.

In defense of the student, I find that if I don't go out with a specific set of goals for a session, a bit of the red mist sets in, I push too hard, and I revert to my bad habits rather than work on extending my skill set. I suspect that happens to everyone to some extent.

Veloce Raptor

Yeah....this person sought me out to work on one of the 3 corners. I give him credit for this. He admitted having a problem there. We did communicate....it just didn't stick, which was the disappointing part.








Professional Racing and Driving Coach

ervtx

I keep thinking to myself "wow, am I really that stubborn?"

Then I remind myself that I wasn't even able to make it out there this past weekend!
Ha! Spared by my non-appearance!

Veloce Raptor

You were missed!









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

mglobe

Indeed you were missed Russell. And you missed my efforts at another creative line through Rattlesnake. Or rather an effort to skip it completely.

sbelles

Maybe he turned his data on and was testing your line against his?