todinlaw

Now that our track season is in its twilight for the year, we are thinking about some changes in our PCA region regarding the process of advancing a driver to higher run groups. We are thinking of copying some the the Ideas the Lone Star region PCA uses in a little more structure, (see VR I give credit on occasion)

Anyway I am looking for a list of skills or criteria that other clubs use as a check off list before they advance a driver to the next run group. We in zone 4 use a different run group designation than many other zone's. We have 5 run groups I (Instructor) then A-D with A as the most advanced and D as the beginner. So we divide the Students into 4 different skill groups.

Anyone have a handy little check list that I can copy.

While I am fishing for others ideas, one more topic.

Some regions have the instructor drive the students car, as a part of the teaching process and other regions forbid it. would like to hear the pro/cons of your experiences and why we should or should not do it.

Thanks Frank

Chaos

When you drive "FLAT OUT" you should always be placed in the fastest run group !

Bob Rouleau

FRank, I am racing this weekend but if you send me a PM I will send you our criteria for advancement on Monday.

Best,

Gofishracing

Demonstration drive for new DE student gives you a chance to check the safety and condition of Student's car. It gives you a chance to point out cornerworkers and reference points etc.. We do 2 laps and then switch. I really makes it easier for newbee to get around track initially. That's also what the pro coaches do. I'd be interested in seeing Bob's run group advancement criteria to compare to mine.

DCP

I'll chime in from a student perspective. I am in Lone Star. I assume VR already sent you the Lone Star advancement standards.

We have instructors driving student's cars only at the very first new student session. After that, they can do so if the student asks them to do so. I have done this a number of times and while they tend not to be very agressive, it is extremely helpful to watch and listen to what they do with the car. I know that when I ask them to drive my car, any harm to my car is my sole responsibility. I do not recall that being in the handbook, perhaps it already is, but if not it would not be a bad idea to put it there.

docwyte

Really? I'd assume the "you break it, you bought it" rule would be in effect. I know if I were a student letting an instructor drive my car and something happens, I'd be more than a little upset if they didn't step up to the plate and take care of whatever damage occurred...

VaSteve

I see this arguement all the time on the pros and cons of driving a student's car. How freaking fast are you going that you're worried about damage? Sure, **** happens but how often in the green group on the first two laps on the first day?

Gary R.

Frank - CVR has the same grouping as you with colors instead of letters -

Green - new or beginning driver with an instructor
Yellow/Yellow Solo - novice with instructor / novice without instructor
White - advanced
Black - more advanced
Red - Instructor group

The criteria we use is here - http://www.cvrpca.org/docs/de/de-advancement-2010.pdf

docwyte

Yeah of course, but for that one time that something does happen, it shouldn't be the students responsibility. If you're the instructor and you decide (or your club decides) that you need to be driving your students car, then it's your responsibility to take care of whatever damage is caused.

DCP

It my car - there is probably no insurance coverage. I made the choice and I can tell the instructor to stop at any time. What instrutor would drive my car if he or she had to out of pocket costs for a mistake? Wouldn't happen.

Gofishracing

Be concerned about your driving- Not the Instructor's. The demonstration drive is safer than getting to the track. If there is something mechanically wrong with your car and it breaks at 4 tenths on the track- it's not his responsibility. Safer for an Instructor to see if your car can stop & turn rather than just hopping into the passenger seat. Especially after just telling him that you usually drive flat out. This thread was not about this in the first place. CVR guidelines for Advancement are very well stated. PM me for my forms.

Gary R.

Yep, read post #8..

TwentySix

I think there are a few different regions criteria in this thread:

https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...ml#post6209271

VaSteve

LOL!!

TT Gasman

As a rule, I don't think it's a good idea for the instructor to drive a student's car, unless there is a very specific reason. Besides there are very, very few instructors I would even trust to drive my car "flat out" as the kids say.
Having said that, the Lone Star DEs are very well run and are truly a model to emulate.