996 cars only: Hose clamp must be installed around oil filler cap - ?!
08-27-2010, 08:13 AM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Again, I have not stated nor IMPLIED any objection to the practice of the "HOSE CLAMP".... where do you see that in any off my POST!
I stand by my "ROOT CAUSE" observations. Which is based on years of experience itself.
i.e... The Cap/"O-ring" design requires a specified amount of compression to function properly (seat fully)... Should the cap not be twisted on to its maximum torque the o-ring does not apply the proper compression... thus, will "BACK OFF" or vibrate loose under hard use.... NOW, what started this cascade of events...The plastic filler tube has a certain amount of flex.... when applying the cap the HUMAN factor became concerned that they might damage that component... Thus, reducing the amount of applied force during the cap installation. Then also take into account the probability of the HUMAN interface not cleaning the Filler tube seat or Cap properly... Either resulting in some obstruction or damage. While many of the other cars (newer) utilize similar components... the "FEEL" is more rigid... Giving the human Factor a higher level of Confidence... Thus, the application of the cap meets its design criteria.
I stand by my "ROOT CAUSE" observations. Which is based on years of experience itself.
i.e... The Cap/"O-ring" design requires a specified amount of compression to function properly (seat fully)... Should the cap not be twisted on to its maximum torque the o-ring does not apply the proper compression... thus, will "BACK OFF" or vibrate loose under hard use.... NOW, what started this cascade of events...The plastic filler tube has a certain amount of flex.... when applying the cap the HUMAN factor became concerned that they might damage that component... Thus, reducing the amount of applied force during the cap installation. Then also take into account the probability of the HUMAN interface not cleaning the Filler tube seat or Cap properly... Either resulting in some obstruction or damage. While many of the other cars (newer) utilize similar components... the "FEEL" is more rigid... Giving the human Factor a higher level of Confidence... Thus, the application of the cap meets its design criteria.
08-27-2010, 08:39 AM
#32
Mr. Excitement
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^you are missing the point being made by many.^ The caps leak regardless of what the owner does to tighten it. The band clamp stops the problem and more so than a new cap. I watched caps leak that did not "BACK OFF" Same cap with a $0.75 band clamp that took 45 seconds to install cured the issue 100%. As a tech chair for over 7 years I saw a "reasonable" number of samples of the issue.
The issue at hand is not the yellow caps but the rule as written on one groups tech form. It does not clearly denote the only cap in question. The non flat sided Mk II caps don't leak when snugged down to proper torque do not need a band clamp.
The issue at hand is not the yellow caps but the rule as written on one groups tech form. It does not clearly denote the only cap in question. The non flat sided Mk II caps don't leak when snugged down to proper torque do not need a band clamp.
08-27-2010, 11:14 AM
#33
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'this one time, at band clamp' --
Seriously now, while a hose clamp is probably the simplest way to 'race prep' this area of the car, and a way in which anyone could do it, I would do this a different way.
Seriously now, while a hose clamp is probably the simplest way to 'race prep' this area of the car, and a way in which anyone could do it, I would do this a different way.
08-27-2010, 11:33 AM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by kurt M
? you are missing the point being made by many.^ The caps leak regardless of what the owner does to tighten it. The band clamp stops the problem and more so than a new cap. I watched caps leak that did not "BACK OFF" Same cap with a $0.75 band clamp that took 45 seconds to install cured the issue 100%. As a tech chair for over 7 years I saw a "reasonable" number of samples of the issue.
The issue at hand is not the yellow caps but the rule as written on one groups tech form. It does not clearly denote the only cap in question. The non flat sided Mk II caps don't leak when snugged down to proper torque do not need a band clamp.
The issue at hand is not the yellow caps but the rule as written on one groups tech form. It does not clearly denote the only cap in question. The non flat sided Mk II caps don't leak when snugged down to proper torque do not need a band clamp.
08-27-2010, 12:29 PM
#35
Mr. Excitement
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I did not play anything I asked a question. The issues with the 996 had not come up during my tenure at Tech Chair. The issues with the 964 era Yellow plastic caps had. This is why I asked about the 996.
Chris offered up an opinion. He is a smart guy and I read his posts and listen to his opinions. On the other hand 1000 opinions still adds up to 0.0 on the fixit scale. On the other hand a good simple fix to a track day ending type problem is priceless.
Chris offered up an opinion. He is a smart guy and I read his posts and listen to his opinions. On the other hand 1000 opinions still adds up to 0.0 on the fixit scale. On the other hand a good simple fix to a track day ending type problem is priceless.
08-27-2010, 12:37 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
It is apparent that I am in the presence of greatness and those of us whom might have 30 yrs experience in both the Engineering and Auto fields can not stand up to the brilliance before me!
Or be subjugated by incompetence.
Ignorance does not solve the problem ONLY slows the ultimate result
Or be subjugated by incompetence.
Ignorance does not solve the problem ONLY slows the ultimate result
08-27-2010, 01:23 PM
#37
Mr. Excitement
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I don't understand the animosity you have. You seem to have a made up mind with complete disregard to what others have experienced and I might add what Porsche has recommended in print. Not some dealer shill or sales guy or the uncle that is a TV repairman and has a bitching tool box, Porsche. You know the experenced automovive engineers that designed and made the cap in the first place. 
I have no dog in this hunt and posted only to ask a question with regard to the 996 cap and offer the experience I have with the earlier era yellow caps. Please disregard that the band clamp fix worked well and worked better than any other fix including a new cap did. Don’t let success get in the way of a made up mind.
Where were you when the many guys at the track were having oil leaking problems?! Little did we all know that the leaks were simply a matter of tightening the caps further. You would think that would be the first thing everyone did with a leaking cap…. I had no idea I was but another wave in a sea of ignorance.
I have no dog in this hunt and posted only to ask a question with regard to the 996 cap and offer the experience I have with the earlier era yellow caps. Please disregard that the band clamp fix worked well and worked better than any other fix including a new cap did. Don’t let success get in the way of a made up mind.
Where were you when the many guys at the track were having oil leaking problems?! Little did we all know that the leaks were simply a matter of tightening the caps further. You would think that would be the first thing everyone did with a leaking cap…. I had no idea I was but another wave in a sea of ignorance.
