kurt M

It would be the most relevent post in many threads.



Jgrant, Please share if you can. Would be intresting both in the aspect of the OP question on braking but also from a data use and driver ajustment aspect.

kfyork

Slightly off-topic to the thread - however perhaps part of what you're seeking - Ross would likely enjoy your company on a Facebook page he's created for discussions like this.
As a colleague of Ross, I can tell you that jgrant's insights are spot-on.

Too (as ever) Veloce Raptor cuts to the core of the issue! ;-)

chopperzz

OT to the OP, but I have to ask, How many times does someone comment, mid post, about veloce raptor and his avatar?

3 cheers for veloce raptor, hip hip...............

jdistefa

Big fan of Ross's books. More like the Zen of driving than anything. Less about rules and more about touch, approach, reflection, self-directed learning, and leaving some reserve in the car... having respect for the car .

I think the braking question is soooooo subjective. Think of the factors involved, in no particular order, with things missing I'm sure

track surface/grip
elevation/camber changes
ambient temp
tire type/compound/age
tire temp
speed
pad/rotor type
brake bias
abs or no
engine location
car balance
car weight
qualifying, sprint, enduro, endurance
driver skill, touch, preference
line

jgrant

Just talked to Ross, and he's given me the go-ahead to post away. I'll try and dig up that stuff later on tonight when I get home.

And personally, I tend to focus more on what I'm trying to accomplish with my braking (car dynamics, weight transfer, etc) rather than the exact details of how to do that. As Matt said, the "how" can be so subjective based on a large number of variables.

Probably the biggest epiphany for me was the realization that being "smooth" does not mean being "slow".

Ross' data shows him going from WOT to full brake pressure in well under a second (if memory serves). Stupidly fast, but amazingly smooth.

Veloce Raptor

The key is doing all this without surprising the car.









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

kurt M

One of my standard right seat patters.

Cadence. Every car has its own cadence. It is the invisible silent metronome that goes tick tick tick at the car’s pace. You need to work at the same pace as the car can/will. Move faster than the car and you are stabbing or jerking, slower than and you are, well, slower. What sets the cadence for your car? Everything Does. Tires, suspension, weight and balance are some biggies but all aspects play a part. All inputs are measured in time and space. An input is not just when and how much but rate and progression. As an example. The wheel can be turned 120 degrees in 1/8 of a second or in ½ a second. Same start point on track same overall input but very different rate will produce very different results.

333pg333

Thanks for all the replies thus far and thanks for that list Joe. Plenty to ponder.

I believe one of the unknowns is for someone like me to go around the track as fast as I can but not know what is faster when you make changes. So the data logging is a must and really I can't think of why we all don't have it. Wish I'd started earlier. Take T2 shown in the clip on page 1. There are at least 3 ways of taking this double apex off camber 190o turn. You can see the EVO takes it differently to me, but he's in a very different car, so that line might suit his car more than mine. Overall lap times aren't going to help. Need hard data on specifics. Good stuff.

Carlo_Carrera

The only thing I can add that has not been addressed is that for most drivers it is best when slowing the car and down shifting more than one gear you should not go through every gear on the way down. Just from the top gear to one you need to be in for the upcoming corner as you threshold brake. Unless you have a sequential gear box obviously.

Veloce Raptor

STRONGLY disagree.









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

mglobe

I really like this point, and I'll add to it that different corners have different "cadences" also. I learned this just recently at Hallett. Some turns require that you really hammer the brakes to get the speed down. In others, too aggressive on the brakes puts the car on it's toes, and makes it difficult to get it back to a more balanced posture. In all cases, I think a smooth transition from brake to throttle is essential.

Sean F

not just when but how you come off the brake...sometimes it's abrupt, sometimes it's like molasses - depends on what you're trying to do. i spend more time concentrating on how I come off than i do how i apply.

333pg333

I find with the PFCs being carbon metallic that you sort of have to 'fade' off the pedal. It's as if coming off the pedal is as tactile as the application.

Carlo_Carrera

Interesting, please explain why.

Veloce Raptor

Because it is far too easy to end up in the wrong gear that way, such as wanting to go from 5th to 3rd and ending up in 1st. $30,000 BOOM!

Far safer to quickly row through the gears to make sure you end up in the correct one.

Watch in car of top drivers, including pros. A great example are all the Leh Keen videos that have been posted here. They row all the gears on multiple downshifts. Watch Leh's Sebring or Road Atlanta videos--he will go 6th to 2nd and go through EVERY gear.






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