9.5 Degrees

I think Pete is right. The Unknown was Massa's pace when he returned. However, after a handful of races, his pace was known and after 8 races, Ferrari STILL resigned him for 2 more years. It's pretty clear that Massa is relagated to the 2nd driver status at this point as he isn't even close to Alonso's pace effectively getting points to help in the Constructor's champtionship, but he'll not compete directly with Alonso, at least not at this point.

Lothar

Nice to see that this thread has descended into the usual McLaren, Alonso, Hamilton bashfest.

So Pete, how sour can you make those grapes? Of course Ferrari deserves every win and not a single penalty. Good for them, they have you on the job.

enduro911

Ferrari like Massa because he showed himself to be a good driver from 2007 to his accident. He's loyal and likeable, which goes a long way at Ferrari. If his performance improves, great. If it doesn't, they have a loyal number two who can score points which he's already doing at this point. If he gets worse, well, from what I know contracts aren't as binding in Europe as they are here...

multi21

I don't think I'm the only one who can see clear favoritism toward the all British team of McLaren, Hamilton and Button. One need only look at a small example of the last two races where a late penalty was called against Hamilton for passing the safety car which favored him the longer he stayed out and the same late penalty against Alonso which did not favor him the longer he stated out, but in turn favored Button.

The only difference is that the FIA made it sound like THEY were the ones who told Ferrari 3 times to have Alonso fall back behind Kubica and for some strange reason, Ferrari didn't tell Alonso to do so. Thankfully there are radio transmissions that say otherwise and that it was Ferrari asking Charlie Whiting on 3 occasions to clarify if Alonso should fall back or not and it wasn't until Kubica's engine failed that the FIA made their ruling. Well, that's great timing because it ended up that their indecision cost Ferrari a points paying spot and elevated Button to 4th.

BTW, I prefer wine and not grapes....

Lothar

Are you kidding me? Are you talking about the same FIA that fined McLaren $100 million? The FIA that hates Ron Dennis?

How 'bout we just say that the Alonso incident was a race director screw-up. It should not have taken that long to assess the situation and to tell Alonso to give the spot back to Kubica.

Your constant whining about the FIA favoring McLaren is conjecture on your part. You have little real evidence to support it. You are a typical tifosi type and you don't like to see Ferrari trounced by McLaren. No Problem. That's being a fan. But please stop with the ridiculous conspiracy theories. They simply don't jive with the longer view of history.

Let's not forget all we have learned about Ferrari's special deals with the FIA, starting with how Ferrari gets a bigger share of the revenue compared to other teams just because they are Ferrari. Talk about favoritism.

multi21

Are you telling us that McLaren DIDN'T deserve the fine for stealing Ferrari's dossier and then lying about it? And are you defending Ron Dennis, the head of McLaren who at the time was trying to cover up the fact that they used the secrets in their pre-season testing and race strategy against Ferrari and knew EXACTLY when they would pit and what they would do in certain race situations? He only came clean after Alonso blackmailed him and forced his hand.

Let me tell you something Lothar, Ron Dennis was allowed to resign from McLaren instead of being banned as Flavio Briatore was because Dennis had built up a lot of credit over the life of his F1 career. But make no mistake, the FIA gave him the ban similar to the way Michael Jordan "retired" the first time to go play minor league baseball. At the time, David Stern couldn't ban his biggest star for association with known gamblers, so they came up with a "sabatical". Similar circumstance for Ron Dennis, but at the very least, the FIA allowed him to leave with some dignity.

You casually dismiss the Alonso example as a race director "mistake". Are you serious??? A mistake has the premise that there is an oversight or other matter that infers an accident. When you're asked 3 different times to make a decision and then come out in the press and flat out lie that you told the team 3 times to give back the position, that is conspiracy.

But that's just one example I gave. Have do you explain the previous race when Hamilton's decision didn't come until 17 laps later and by rule allowed to run 3 more laps effectly not being a penalty at all?

You also mention Ferrari had a special deal with the FIA. Yes, the deal was for revenue, not on track favors -- a big difference. Ferrari, as a franchise, and all the fans and money they and their fans bring to F1 is crucial for FOM. Without them they don't make as much money and when the FOTA wanted a bigger slice of the pie, the biggest player had to be placated. It's simple leverage. If Ferrari goes, a lot of other teams go and the FIA is screwed.

Am I a tifosi, yes. Do I hate McLaren, yes, but that doesn't mean I can't be objective. There needs to be natural rivalries in sport and the McLaren/Ferrari rivalry is one of the best ever. I started off this thread by stating McLaren has been the best at developing a car in this new era of a testing ban. Further, I stated that under Whitmarsh, McLaren has thrived as they shed their stuffy image they held so long under Ron Dennis.

ltc

fixed it for you...

In the eyes of the FIA, Alonso is as pure as the driven snow with respect to Stepneygate and Piquet's unfortunately and untimely crash...

Lothar

And what motivation does the FIA have to favor McLaren? What purpose does that serve?

I never made apologies for McLaren or Ron Dennis, nor did I say that Ferrari had received track favors. I would say that one M. Schumacher has gotten the benefit of the doubt a time or two because of his superstar status.

You, on the other hand, want to suggest that anything that adversely affects your beloved Ferrari is part of conspiracy on the part of the FIA to assist McLaren. The fact that a race director or the stewards fashion their statements to the press to play down their lack of a clear and expedient response to Ferrari in one situation, does not a conspiracy make.

multi21

Don't know what the motivation is at this point, but the evidence of what is happening on track this year is clear. It wasn't like that a few years back with McLaren, but it's certainly there this year.

There is a good 'ol boy network in F1 and it's primarily dominated by the Brits. Moreover, F1 is becoming more and more nationalistic and wWith McLaren being all British down to both drivers, that is were I'm focusing on. Last year with Brawn and Button, there seemed to be some favoritism towards them -- not necessarily on track with penalties imposed, but the fact the FIA let Brawn keep their double diffuser after they specifically changed the rules to have teams carrying less downforce and increase overtaking. Maybe it was because it was a good story with an upstart BrawnF1 team leading the championship, but for whatever reason, they fundamentally changed their philosphy just 4 races into the 2009 season and let them keep the DD.

Now next year's regs say the DD is out. Go figure

Lothar

The FIA let Braun keep the double diffuser because it was within the rules. Other teams can cry because they didn't think of it earlier, but that doesn't make it illegal.

wanna911

Do you actually believe this drivel or do you just like to hear yourself talk. Anyone who has watched F1 over the past few years is having a good laugh at your expense. Thanks.

A.Wayne

Easy now ..



Think of Pete as a new born calf , his eyes are gently peeling back, his vision is blurry, but he is starting to see .....

At full vision he will realize!

How the business of F1 took an average driver like Schumacher and made him 7 times faux champion .

How the business of F1 created f1 champion Button another lacky .....

How the business of F1 gave a little helping hand to Hamilton , payback for robbing him of his spa victory in an attempt to keep the championship alive to the very end.... it ended as it was scripted ...





Yes sir petal is starting to see , Alonso penalty last race was because he called out the FIA in Valencia , something about the word "Manipulation" ohhh no not a word to be used when the FIA is involved , so little Alonso was given a little beat down , a shut up and drive penalty ...

Now the Gods smile :

Seeing Faux 7 being bettered by Barichello in a Williams .... LOL . Schumacher was never faster than Barichello and there will be no Lauda type championship for him , yes sir , nothing but his new AARP card @ the end of this rainbow .....


WWF1 thanks for playing ...........

PPo

There is a guy in my nieghbourhood who seriously believes that the earth is run by a group of lizard people who are masked as humans. He claims the Lizard people rule the earth, and there is nothing we can do to succeed because they control everything.

The last few posts make me think that a group of you would get along with the guy in my nieghbourhood...

If the FIA could excerise the type of power and control any of you are suggesting, we would certainly only precieve a much more seamless and honest FIA... an FIA that would convince most of you that they don't have the power and control to influence race results as they do.

I think what you are seeing, is people trying to do the best they can, trying to be impartial, but in the end, thier heart influences thier decisions... Some of them I disslike as well, but at the end of the day... it is just a race! Last one to the monkey bars is a rotten egg!!

A.Wayne

^^^

GNR996

I have tremendous respect for all the drivers in F1 (and other series as well), even FA, well maybe not.

amazes me that they can do back to back laps within thousands of a second.

comes down to who ya get signed with and how that team develops the car.

the guys driving these cars are living the dream, lots of hard work and sacrifice from a very young age. if they had not made here they would be doing like lots of you fellas and getting out to De's on the weekends and still having a blast.

they all get a A+ from me.

the business of F1 gets a fail.

FWIW