multi21

I don't know how this thread got side tracked with an Alonso vs. Schumacher debate. It's not about that. It's about an observation I've noticed about Alonso and mistakes at crucial times that have cost him this year.

Someone mentioned he's pushing the car to get that extra few 10ths because the Ferrari is not on par with the Red Bulls. True, but at Monaco Alonso was fastest in all the practices. He had the fastest car and has admitted after the race that he could have won...... but he made an unexplainable mistake in the final practice before qualifying. There are no excuses for that at this level. He probably cost himself a race win and at the very least a solid podium. He just didn't make these critical mistakes in the past.

My other point was that he he is talking like Ferrari is his last place of employment. It's clear that he is trying his best at this point with Ferrari saying all the right things eventhough he is making major mistakes. But my experience has shown that once someone is thinking about the end of their career, they are pretty much there mentally. I'm not sure if Alonso is thinking like a short timer or not, it's just something to look at over the course of the season.

There seems to be a trend over the life of a driver's career. At first, they make stupid mistakes (think Hamilton beaching the car in China, Vettel crashing into Kubica last year at the end of the race etc), then the driver matures and is nearly flawless in his execution. Then the skills begin to dimish and the mental mistakes take place, things that didn't happen just a couple years prior.

A.Wayne

Yes.. of course uncle larry ............ i watch your racing videos all the time

LOL... Yes of course Poor schumacher. His custom Bridgestones which took him to 5 wdc failed him ..Phatetic ray , very!







If Schumacher was around in the 80's he would have won no more than 1 wdc, well maybe 2 IMO, but better than that , put any of the top F1 drivers from any era and apply schumachers contractually gift and calcualte their WDC .. Hmmm

Imagine if senna could not race Prost at Mclaren .. chiii ching .....

or

Lauda could not race Prost at Mclaren ......

I know , i Know .. What if Arnoux was not allowed to race Prost @ Renault ,,,, there was 2 that got away, What if Montoya was not allowed to race Kimi ! Mansell not allowed to race Piquet .. cha ching 1 more for daddy making it 4 WDC .. on , and on ...


ahhhh yes ............... Such is the great MS, the secret is in the contract, ask Rosberg, who was faster , then slower , then faster ....

Todsimpson

That's an interesting point, but his comments could simply mean he is trying to express how glad he is to be at Ferrari, and build loyalty with the team.

Alonso will win the WDC again (this year, IMO) and be a factor as long as he's in the car.

paradisenb

Oh, Pete. Stirring the pot? I know there is someone on the board who is not taking this well.

I don't think a couple of errors is a definitive sign he is past his prime.
I hope 29 is not over the hill. That would mean I've celebrated SOOO many anniversaries of my over the hill b-day I will soon be having an OTH-OTH birthday. Got that?

Flying Finn

For sure Alonso is past his prime...

OK, seriously, I'm not sure whether he'll get any better he already is but that doesn't mean he's "done". He has a good car (2nd best, just behind RB at the moment) and No. 1 status in his team so as long as he maintains his skill level as it is, he has a chance to win WDC.

His 2 big mistakes in 6 races so far are a sign of his lack of "calmness" though. He's shown this before and in his WDC years didn't have to face pressure (got the early lead and from then on was just being careful and collecting points) so now when faced with pressure, it's interesting to see how he copes.

Definitely not done yet but imagine the headlines (in Italian press and from Wayne) if Kimi had screwed up twice in his 1st 6 races with Ferrari as Alonso has done...
He for sure gets a "pass" for some reason.

A.Wayne

Finn LOL.. KImi was a disaster remember his Monaco performance in 07 ...


Massa's performance is a better yardstick of where Ferrari is at the moment ...

Flying Finn

Sure, Kimi StrekStrekStrekStreked up the same way in Monaco as did Alonso, except that it was the only StrekStrekStrekStrekup in 1st 6 races and there was a lot of rap for that.
Alonso has StrekStrekStrekStreked up royally twice but hasn't had much of anything said in media etc.

Massa? He's so lost that even finding a needle in haystack would be easier, ever since Hungary he's been somewhere else.

enduro911

Many can mean 2, semantically, but I believe you’re using it to describe more than launch control and traction control. What else did he have? And sources if you find evidence of any more, please. These things gave him an advantage in the first part of the season, but were not contributing factors post the French GP. The Williams, on the other hand, made great progress at Imola, a race before the half way point of the season. Thus, Hill wasn’t completely helpless for the entire first half of the season.
Let’s also remember, Schumacher was rightfully penalized and wasn’t allowed to compete for two races and was excluded from two more, but STILL managed to win. Those consequences whether he alone was at fault or not, are still huge obstacles to overcome.

You said he never had. But I agree the 95 car wasn’t as good as the Williams, either. Remember, I only really defended 94 in any detail.
The Williams FW16B in the second half of the season was a better car if for no other reasons than it was fast and controllable. The best car may not be the easiest to drive, but that’s a factor that goes a long way in consistently scoring points. Hill threw points away that mathematically cost him the championship in the German Grand Prix, something someone like Alonso, in previous seasons without the fastest car, didn’t do.
As you mentioned, Schumacher’s teammates were unable to get their hands around the Benetton in 1994, mainly because it wasn’t controllable. I'll let Finn vouch of the fact the Lehto has pretty good reactions, too, so it's not as though these guys were talentless. In 95, the Benetton chassis stayed pretty much the same, which meant it was still very twitchy and loses of grip were abrupt, but with the added power, they could make up extra time on the Williams. Neither car was easy to drive, which reflects well on Herr Schumacher.

If that is pathetic, then Alonso’s 07 performance is also pathetic because he only put himself in a position to win the WDC but did not do so despite having the best car post-Australia (because Ferrari could no longer utilize their movable floor device), and was beaten by a rookie teammate. Schumacher beat his teammate (on and off the track) and challenged those with a better car.

I actually meant this to be something humorous and on which we could agree. Cheating was/is not the right course of action.

In a few circumstances and even if that’s generally true, what about the rest of the time? I said drive well in chaotic situations, not win every time the track is wet.

I honestly don't know what you're referring to here. Are you talking about the movable floor from the 07 car? The wheel covers on the 06 and 07 car?

Welcome to Business 101, where it is taught that most people and companies make the most of advantages that are (and sometimes could even come close to being construed as) legal, whether or not they are 100% fair or scrupulous. Why didn’t the aforementioned drivers build such a clause into their contract? I’m not saying it’s the best indicator of who is truly the better on-track driver, but if one is concerned with success, it would certainly help.
Point 2 and something I’ve mentioned before, Schumacher and Brawn have worked together for a long time now, and before this season, it was Schumacher/Brawn/Byrne. The combination obviously worked wonders early on. Why would a driver want to part with a formula he knows is successful? Being a good Formula 1 driver means positioning yourself well within a team. By the logic in the first part of your signature, the (true) great one is undeserving of this title because he never won a World Championship without the help of Gordon Murray. I know I know, “BLASPHEMY!!!” and “Senna is God!!!” For the record, I have the utmost respect of his skill and commitment as a driver and I believe he is one of the best to ever participate in the sport. You’re half right, the secret to incredible numerical success is partially in the contract, the rest is skill and luck.

multi21

I will just document each and every time ALONSA makes a major blunder. That is now 3 out of 7 race weekends and two in a row he has made an absolute unthinkable blunder for an astonishing 43% failure rate. Boy has he lost it early in his career. Still in his 20's too. That's a shame because an old man in his 40's out qualified him today.

Don't bank on any safety car periods here to save his bacon.

Larry Herman

enduro911

I honestly didn't think his mistakes this year were a big deal until this qualifying session. I didn't see it but the way it's described, Alonso should have done better. I still don't think that he's "done" with his career. Piquet, Lauda, Prost...they all had bad years but the difference is that these guys were not in any type of title fight when they decided to slack.

I really do wonder what's up with him. He's performed well under pressure and even at Mclaren, after he settled down post Hungary, he didn't make mistakes on track. Driving for Ferrari? Shouldn't be a huge jump in pressure, at least not anything more than he's dealt with in the past. Needing to beat Massa? No, he's doing that. The only things I can think of are the added expectations after his maiden victory and that he feels that the team's mistakes and the reliability problem are going to cost him at the end of the year because he's under the delusion that he's actually got a shot at winning the WDC. In essence, he's essentially trying to correct the mistakes, both his and otherwise, earlier this year. Let's face it, this hasn't been the most predictable of years.

The good thing is he's not going to have the chance because RB are going to run away. His performances will thus not matter so if he's suffering from said pressure, it'll be off him until next year when Ferrari hopefully will have a more competitive car.

ltc

It's the team's fault. They keep letting her down.

Flying Finn

That's actually what she, the great car developer, said in an interview yesterday commenting that the team hasn't made enough development...

multi21

Really?

You didn't think completely writing off the car in the last practice session just before qualifying in, of all places, MONACO, wasn't a "Big Deal"?

You didn't think jumping the start in China and getting a drive through penalty was a "Big Deal"?

If what Finn is saying about him blaming the team about not developing the car enough, then the beginning of the end is upon us. The car was a race winner in week 1. Today, they are behind both Mercedes and Renault!

We all called it. Alonso is an absolute cancer to a team. Was it Montgomery that burned through Georgia in the 1800? ALonso makes that look like a backyard BBQ.

A.Wayne

Hey! what happened in qualifying ?

There was so much dust . it appears some **** clown made another 35 Million dollar mistake and ran off the track.