IMPACT Racing has been SFI DEcertified
03-28-2010, 08:54 AM
#31
Super Moderator
Needs More Cowbell
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Needs More Cowbell
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
No organization or person is perfect, but they have organized some good efforts, like the standard for a chest protector for Junior drivers (SFI 16.1 IIRC) in karting.
A few years back a young driver was killed when his sternum impacted the steering wheel/column/hub in an accident (kids under 15 or so do not have fully developed breast bones).
SFI was at the forefront to develop a standard and test for what is now standard for all Jr drivers, a chest protector.
A few years back a young driver was killed when his sternum impacted the steering wheel/column/hub in an accident (kids under 15 or so do not have fully developed breast bones).
SFI was at the forefront to develop a standard and test for what is now standard for all Jr drivers, a chest protector.
03-28-2010, 09:29 AM
#32
Super Moderator
Needs More Cowbell
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Needs More Cowbell
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Additional discussion, information...
http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.com/node.php?id=2991
The order goes into effect April 27, 2010. The order pertains to all products manufactured and/or distributed by Impact Racing in relation to SFI Specification Programs 3.2A (racing firesuits), 3.3 (driver accessories), 16.1 (driver restraint assemblies) and 16.5 (stock-car driver restraint assemblies).
http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.com/node.php?id=2991
The order goes into effect April 27, 2010. The order pertains to all products manufactured and/or distributed by Impact Racing in relation to SFI Specification Programs 3.2A (racing firesuits), 3.3 (driver accessories), 16.1 (driver restraint assemblies) and 16.5 (stock-car driver restraint assemblies).
03-28-2010, 10:20 AM
#33
Mr. Excitement
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I think the reason that SFI is getting hit first is twofold. It's so blatantly obvious about Impact that criticizing them is just too easy.
The second reason is that the decertification of the equipment that apparently meets the SFI standards and could very well have a real SFI tag does nothing to hurt Impact. All it does is hurt the racers and forces them to buy another suit (with an SFI tag) which puts money in SFI hands. The decertificaiton of the older equipment will most likely have zero bearing on the future of Impact, it's the ending of the relationship between the two that will.
The second reason is that the decertification of the equipment that apparently meets the SFI standards and could very well have a real SFI tag does nothing to hurt Impact. All it does is hurt the racers and forces them to buy another suit (with an SFI tag) which puts money in SFI hands. The decertificaiton of the older equipment will most likely have zero bearing on the future of Impact, it's the ending of the relationship between the two that will.
I think you have work with one or both or you are relegated to sewing "street" gear. my guess is impact as a brand is "devalued" and Bill will be stitching un Nomex under a new brand at some point.
03-28-2010, 02:20 PM
#34
Well, kudos to them if they did something right for the kids. Most of my animosity toward them is the "testing" that they do, especially surrounding belts. Is their testing actually overseen by anyone or approved by a third party?
No organization or person is perfect, but they have organized some good efforts, like the standard for a chest protector for Junior drivers (SFI 16.1 IIRC) in karting.
A few years back a young driver was killed when his sternum impacted the steering wheel/column/hub in an accident (kids under 15 or so do not have fully developed breast bones).
SFI was at the forefront to develop a standard and test for what is now standard for all Jr drivers, a chest protector.
A few years back a young driver was killed when his sternum impacted the steering wheel/column/hub in an accident (kids under 15 or so do not have fully developed breast bones).
SFI was at the forefront to develop a standard and test for what is now standard for all Jr drivers, a chest protector.
03-29-2010, 07:03 PM
#35
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Impact also had a complete set of driver suits for Drag Racing recalled as they didn't make spec http://www.dragracingsafety.com/articles/article-2.htmland were implacated in using fake HANS posts on the helmets they sold http://hansdevice.com/app/site/media...dia.nl?id=2806. Given those two incidents I'm not sure how much I'd feel safe on anything else they sold with the current news.
03-29-2010, 07:56 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Orlando, FL USA
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No. SFI will not release test results, and will not allow manufacturers to release test results. Also, the belt spec does not allow for stronger material.
03-29-2010, 08:11 PM
#37
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Short memory, Long Island
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All seat belts and harnesses deliberately have a prescribed amount of "stretch" built in to control trauma to the body. Stronger is not necessarily better or acceptable
03-29-2010, 08:20 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Orlando, FL USA
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03-29-2010, 08:50 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Steve at OG racing posted this explanation of the issue on the NASA site:
The thing is, SFI certifications aren't exactly difficult (want difficult? try getting an FIA certification!) The process works something like this: Submit product for certification (certification fees for testing are usually a few hundred dollars); Purchase SFI tags for production run (less then $5 each - I think it's like $3); every 2-3 years resubmit product for re-certification.
So the question is, which of these steps did Impact decide they didn't need to participate to get the tag? From what I understand, Impact was actively certifying product with the SFI. $3 isn't a lot (considering the average price of a racing suit is ~$800), but if you can get them made in China for 3 cents a piece...
I also want to address some opinions that are forming about SFI. These guys aren't exactly driving around in Porsches and BMWs. They are a non-profit that creates the standard by which our safety equipment is built. I think they sum it up best:
So the question is, which of these steps did Impact decide they didn't need to participate to get the tag? From what I understand, Impact was actively certifying product with the SFI. $3 isn't a lot (considering the average price of a racing suit is ~$800), but if you can get them made in China for 3 cents a piece...
I also want to address some opinions that are forming about SFI. These guys aren't exactly driving around in Porsches and BMWs. They are a non-profit that creates the standard by which our safety equipment is built. I think they sum it up best:
It is important to keep in mind that any such use of counterfeit labeling is in violation of the SFI specification programs. Whether it involves counterfeit helmet clips or counterfeit labeling, such activities can undermine the integrity of the product ratings system that exists in motorsports. This system depends upon trust. If this system is damaged, all of motorsports can suffer the consequences. Manufacturers that agree to the SFI specification programs must meet rigorous and strict requirements. Those stringent standards are in place first and foremost to promote safety and product reliability. Racers and sanctioning bodies must have confidence in a manufacturer’s representation that its products are in compliance with SFI requirements. The conformance label is a manufacturer’s solemn statement to the racing community that it followed the rules in bringing its product to the sport. When this trust is violated, the racing community suffers. The level playing field for other manufacturers becomes uneven. Sometimes the consequences of a breach of trust are severe and can hurt innocent victims. This is why it is so critical that manufacturers follow the ratings system at all times.
03-29-2010, 09:55 PM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Orlando, FL USA
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The increased time to decelerate allows the kinetic energy to build as the square of the relative velocity. It's counter intuitive, I know. I made the same mistake.
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
03-29-2010, 10:18 PM
#42
I'm Still Jenny
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
From the Schroth Competition Instructions:
Webbing stretches during an accident to convert energy and keep body loads within an acceptable range during survivable crashes. Persons not meeting the minimum weight and body size, as set forth below, may not benefit from this design feature.
http://www.schrothracing.com/sdocs/2...structions.pdf
03-29-2010, 10:36 PM
#43
Advanced
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: VIR
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For me the big picture is very clear. Taking into account about a year ago of them making after market helmet anchors for the HANS device and now this with faulty labels? This does not install confidence on any level and I hope we get some real answers. If they did do any of this knowingly so, I would hope their product is removed from the industry.
03-29-2010, 11:16 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
A lot of the talk we've been hearing about the SFI decertification is placing SFI at fault per typical political/money-making reasons. From what I understand, the basis of the decertification is centered on fraudulent SFI-labels. In my opinion, the real question as it pertains to driver safety is, Was Impact skimping on its products? Or just trying to save a buck? (Yes, companies do have to "pay" SFI for labels.)
Here's our take on the matter: With all the recent controversy regarding Impact, I think this goes a little further then just trying to save a few dollars. If you weren't aware, a couple years ago, Impact was accused by a customer of selling drag-racing suits that were not up to the SFI-15/20 standards as advertised. Apparently the customer was concerned with how light his suit was (if you've never seen an SFI 15/20 drag racing suit, they are thick - as in walking like a body-builder, can't bend your knees thick). After ignored calls to Impact, he sent them out for testing, and they did not meet the spec - they didn't even come close. At that time, Impact issued a voluntary recall on all drag-racing products (after some gentle prodding from SFI). With this in mind, and the recent "scandal" regarding fake Hans anchors, all of us here at OG Racing have simply lost faith in the company and its core values.
Our sister company, AAR Racing Gear, specializes in children’s racing gear for quarter midgets, junior dragsters, etc. Impact is one of the few manufacturers who design and produce SFI-rated gear for the little ones. At this time, not only are we sitting on $30k+ in Impact inventory, but we're scrambling to figure out replacements for this gear. We have already decided to cease all sales of Impact product, and since we don't expect Impact to step up to the plate to help our customers, we'll probably be pushing some sort of not-yet-decided campaign to get all of this merchandise back - at our expense. Our biggest concern right now is that we have nothing to offer as a replacement to these families and kids that have been effectively cheated by Impact's alleged actions.
Now, will we be doing something to help all our customers who are currently holding Impact gear in there hands? Well, since we heard this news at about 5pm on Friday, we are still formulating a game plan - our priority in this matter is the last paragraph.
What might help is if we get some feedback - how many of you actively and currently use Impact racing gear? What is it that you own/use (shoes, suit, gloves, etc.)?
Here's our take on the matter: With all the recent controversy regarding Impact, I think this goes a little further then just trying to save a few dollars. If you weren't aware, a couple years ago, Impact was accused by a customer of selling drag-racing suits that were not up to the SFI-15/20 standards as advertised. Apparently the customer was concerned with how light his suit was (if you've never seen an SFI 15/20 drag racing suit, they are thick - as in walking like a body-builder, can't bend your knees thick). After ignored calls to Impact, he sent them out for testing, and they did not meet the spec - they didn't even come close. At that time, Impact issued a voluntary recall on all drag-racing products (after some gentle prodding from SFI). With this in mind, and the recent "scandal" regarding fake Hans anchors, all of us here at OG Racing have simply lost faith in the company and its core values.
Our sister company, AAR Racing Gear, specializes in children’s racing gear for quarter midgets, junior dragsters, etc. Impact is one of the few manufacturers who design and produce SFI-rated gear for the little ones. At this time, not only are we sitting on $30k+ in Impact inventory, but we're scrambling to figure out replacements for this gear. We have already decided to cease all sales of Impact product, and since we don't expect Impact to step up to the plate to help our customers, we'll probably be pushing some sort of not-yet-decided campaign to get all of this merchandise back - at our expense. Our biggest concern right now is that we have nothing to offer as a replacement to these families and kids that have been effectively cheated by Impact's alleged actions.
Now, will we be doing something to help all our customers who are currently holding Impact gear in there hands? Well, since we heard this news at about 5pm on Friday, we are still formulating a game plan - our priority in this matter is the last paragraph.
What might help is if we get some feedback - how many of you actively and currently use Impact racing gear? What is it that you own/use (shoes, suit, gloves, etc.)?
03-29-2010, 11:23 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Also from the SFI Foundation website today:
March 29, 2010 - UPDATE ON IMPACT RACING PRODUCT DECERTIFICATION
On Friday, March 26, 2010, SFI filed suit in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Indiana against Impact Racing, LLC, based upon evidence SFI has received regarding Impact’s manufacture and use of counterfeit SFI conformance labels and patches. Such actions by a manufacturer directly violate its obligations to the SFI program. SFI took similar action when it joined in Hans Performance Products’ lawsuit against Impact due to Impact’s manufacture and use of counterfeit Hans helmet clips. In that case, Impact counterfeited the clips and inscribed an SFI rating on the clips without SFI knowledge or approval. As in the Hans clip case, SFI is asking for another Temporary Restraining Order and Preliminary Injunction against Impact. SFI is also seeking monetary damages. Please see SFI’s web posting of March 26, 2010 for more details on the basis for SFI’s position. At this time we do not know the exact extent of these counterfeiting activities, but through the litigation process we hope to learn all the details. During the years that Impact was using the counterfeit labeling, it was also obtaining authentic patches and labels from SFI. At this time SFI does not know how many products have counterfeit labels and patches and which ones have authentic labels and patches. Therefore, it was unfortunately necessary to decertify all the products manufactured by Impact pursuant to SFI specifications 3.2A, 3.3, 16.1 and 16.5. Please note that Impact helmets are not affected by this decertification.
It is important to keep in mind that any such use of counterfeit labeling is in violation of the SFI specification programs. Whether it involves counterfeit helmet clips or counterfeit labeling, such activities can undermine the integrity of the product ratings system that exists in motorsports. This system depends upon trust. If this system is damaged, all of motorsports can suffer the consequences. Manufacturers that agree to the SFI specification programs must meet rigorous and strict requirements. Those stringent standards are in place first and foremost to promote safety and product reliability. Racers and sanctioning bodies must have confidence in a manufacturer’s representation that its products are in compliance with SFI requirements. The conformance label is a manufacturer’s solemn statement to the racing community that it followed the rules in bringing its product to the sport. When this trust is violated, the racing community suffers. The level playing field for other manufacturers becomes uneven. Sometimes the consequences of a breach of trust are severe and can hurt innocent victims. This is why it is so critical that manufacturers follow the ratings system at all times.
SFI will continue to update the racing community as more information becomes available.
March 29, 2010 - UPDATE ON IMPACT RACING PRODUCT DECERTIFICATION
On Friday, March 26, 2010, SFI filed suit in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Indiana against Impact Racing, LLC, based upon evidence SFI has received regarding Impact’s manufacture and use of counterfeit SFI conformance labels and patches. Such actions by a manufacturer directly violate its obligations to the SFI program. SFI took similar action when it joined in Hans Performance Products’ lawsuit against Impact due to Impact’s manufacture and use of counterfeit Hans helmet clips. In that case, Impact counterfeited the clips and inscribed an SFI rating on the clips without SFI knowledge or approval. As in the Hans clip case, SFI is asking for another Temporary Restraining Order and Preliminary Injunction against Impact. SFI is also seeking monetary damages. Please see SFI’s web posting of March 26, 2010 for more details on the basis for SFI’s position. At this time we do not know the exact extent of these counterfeiting activities, but through the litigation process we hope to learn all the details. During the years that Impact was using the counterfeit labeling, it was also obtaining authentic patches and labels from SFI. At this time SFI does not know how many products have counterfeit labels and patches and which ones have authentic labels and patches. Therefore, it was unfortunately necessary to decertify all the products manufactured by Impact pursuant to SFI specifications 3.2A, 3.3, 16.1 and 16.5. Please note that Impact helmets are not affected by this decertification.
It is important to keep in mind that any such use of counterfeit labeling is in violation of the SFI specification programs. Whether it involves counterfeit helmet clips or counterfeit labeling, such activities can undermine the integrity of the product ratings system that exists in motorsports. This system depends upon trust. If this system is damaged, all of motorsports can suffer the consequences. Manufacturers that agree to the SFI specification programs must meet rigorous and strict requirements. Those stringent standards are in place first and foremost to promote safety and product reliability. Racers and sanctioning bodies must have confidence in a manufacturer’s representation that its products are in compliance with SFI requirements. The conformance label is a manufacturer’s solemn statement to the racing community that it followed the rules in bringing its product to the sport. When this trust is violated, the racing community suffers. The level playing field for other manufacturers becomes uneven. Sometimes the consequences of a breach of trust are severe and can hurt innocent victims. This is why it is so critical that manufacturers follow the ratings system at all times.
SFI will continue to update the racing community as more information becomes available.