Left foot braking.......Yeah or Nay?........
03-26-2010, 07:06 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
That was some amazing footwork! WOW, thanks for posting.
There must be forty left foot braking threads in the archives, but I just searched my own comments to find this much viewed but always dazzling video of Walter Rohl, also reposting my comments from an 07 thread...
Somewhere in the literature (maybe Going Faster? or Ross Bentley?) Mario Andretti is asked for one or two of the "secrets" he's evolved over the course of his experience. He politely responds that any real "secrets" he has accumulated are for the benefit of his sons (Marco not born yet!) but then adds cryptically: "However, a lot of people think brakes are for stopping the car..." Come to think of it this must've been in one of the Speed Secret Books, since Bentley places huge emphasis on left-foot braking...
I think what Mario was suggesting, and what Ross Bentley certainly believes, is that driving ultimately involves an ongoing ballet performance using all three pedals, a performance you can't master until you are fluent with both left foot braking and heel/toe. Using the brakes is another tool for shifting the car's weight around to the tire that needs it, when it needs it.
One of the greatest illustrations: Walter Rohl in Group B, see the dance here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HjXXUyQhPE
(among the many dazzling lessons, watch how he uses the dead pedal; like a percussionist timing his entrance!)
Somewhere in the literature (maybe Going Faster? or Ross Bentley?) Mario Andretti is asked for one or two of the "secrets" he's evolved over the course of his experience. He politely responds that any real "secrets" he has accumulated are for the benefit of his sons (Marco not born yet!) but then adds cryptically: "However, a lot of people think brakes are for stopping the car..." Come to think of it this must've been in one of the Speed Secret Books, since Bentley places huge emphasis on left-foot braking...
I think what Mario was suggesting, and what Ross Bentley certainly believes, is that driving ultimately involves an ongoing ballet performance using all three pedals, a performance you can't master until you are fluent with both left foot braking and heel/toe. Using the brakes is another tool for shifting the car's weight around to the tire that needs it, when it needs it.
One of the greatest illustrations: Walter Rohl in Group B, see the dance here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HjXXUyQhPE
(among the many dazzling lessons, watch how he uses the dead pedal; like a percussionist timing his entrance!)
03-26-2010, 07:11 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
I agree. you certainly can be braking and full throttle though, and what this does is effectively change your rear brake bias, it also lessens the chance of a rear wheel lock up, which might be desirable. There are so many different styles to get the job done, its silly to say one way is the only way for all conditions and situations.
I dont think Rohl's foot work would do as much good on a road racing track.
I dont think Rohl's foot work would do as much good on a road racing track.
Interesting. I had the same comment when I read the title to this post.
The only time I truly used left foot braking is when I raced Karts. Hint: you can only brake with your left foot.
By it's very nature, left foot braking means that you need to use your right foot for something, so the left is going to need to get the job done. Since you can't accelerate and decelerate simultaneously you can't really be "braking" with your left foot. I see it more as managing grip or "balancing" the car.
Semantics maybe.
The only time I truly used left foot braking is when I raced Karts. Hint: you can only brake with your left foot.
By it's very nature, left foot braking means that you need to use your right foot for something, so the left is going to need to get the job done. Since you can't accelerate and decelerate simultaneously you can't really be "braking" with your left foot. I see it more as managing grip or "balancing" the car.
Semantics maybe.
03-27-2010, 07:52 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sorry guys, I am in Egypt and am trying to catch up with the posts......
My question still stands as the OP:
LFB...Yeah or Nay......?
Lets keep it simple....... I really don't feel like posting a two option poll..........
My question still stands as the OP:
LFB...Yeah or Nay......?
Lets keep it simple....... I really don't feel like posting a two option poll..........
03-27-2010, 10:48 PM
#64
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Hey Paolo, if you can't brake PERFECTLY with your right foot, don't worry about the left one until you can. Is that simple enough?
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Larry Herman
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
03-28-2010, 09:09 AM
#66
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03-28-2010, 01:33 PM
#67
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In my SMG M3 I never RFB
03-29-2010, 11:46 AM
#68
Race Director
03-29-2010, 11:53 AM
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03-31-2010, 01:06 AM
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Paolo - what Larry said about being perfect right foot first, but yes, LFB is a really great technique IF you're good at it. You need to try it and make up your own mind, but realize that it takes a lot of practice, and in your car you will have to dance the pedals the way Rohl does in the video.
Oh yeah, stabbing the clutch instead of the brake is not recommended. Fortunately I did it in an auto-x and all I hit was a cone. Never made that mistake again.
03-31-2010, 01:10 AM
#71
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I should have known -- when I got in the car he said "I'm not going to lie to you, I rolled before" "Ok, have you rolled more than once" "Yes...."
I should have gotten out of the car right then.
03-31-2010, 09:08 AM
#72
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05-15-2011, 10:26 AM
#74
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LFB - A Eureka Moment
Sorry to be resurrecting this old thread again but I wanted to share a Eureka experience I had during my coaching session with Bob Turgeon at Pocono North yesterday when we started to work on LFB. In short - it really worked for me! Why?
It wasn't so much about braking and slowing the car per se, but LFB allowed for a much better management of the weight transfer during turn in. This required the right level of braking and the right brake/gas modulation (reducing the amount of gas required over time as your left foot gets more sensitive). For obvious reasons I limited the application of LFB to no-downshift corners. I have a 250hp car that is very forgiving and predictable but will severely penalize you time wise for over slowing in corners.
When we looked at the data and compared lateral and longitudinal g's it was very obvious that this all about smoothing the weight transfer. The data also showed that in some corners I was actually braking earlier but less and achieving higher corner and exit speeds.
Key is that I had to prepare myself for each LFB application. It can't be a spur of the moment decision or you'll end up with your feet places where they don't belong.
+1
All in all, I really learned something and will continue to experiment with it. Thanks for Larry and Bob from Trackside Data for consistently trusting me with their lives in my car!
Can't wait to try this in the dry next time.
Disclaimer:
- Track conditions at Pocono were wet/damp. I'm not a racer. No affiliation with Trackside Data - just a happy customer
It wasn't so much about braking and slowing the car per se, but LFB allowed for a much better management of the weight transfer during turn in. This required the right level of braking and the right brake/gas modulation (reducing the amount of gas required over time as your left foot gets more sensitive). For obvious reasons I limited the application of LFB to no-downshift corners. I have a 250hp car that is very forgiving and predictable but will severely penalize you time wise for over slowing in corners.
When we looked at the data and compared lateral and longitudinal g's it was very obvious that this all about smoothing the weight transfer. The data also showed that in some corners I was actually braking earlier but less and achieving higher corner and exit speeds.
Key is that I had to prepare myself for each LFB application. It can't be a spur of the moment decision or you'll end up with your feet places where they don't belong.
All in all, I really learned something and will continue to experiment with it. Thanks for Larry and Bob from Trackside Data for consistently trusting me with their lives in my car!
Can't wait to try this in the dry next time.Disclaimer:
- Track conditions at Pocono were wet/damp. I'm not a racer. No affiliation with Trackside Data - just a happy customer
05-15-2011, 03:25 PM
#75
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Frank, I think we made the best of the conditions and you did an awesome job. Time for you to start racing again!! With your permission I will post a data trace of what is going on so the debate can continue. We packed up since the fog never lifted............. See you at Tbolt next.