PCA Advanced Instructor Training program-proposed
06-04-2010, 08:34 PM
#33
I am 100% for regular instructor training. One of the key things I have noticed over the last couple of years is inconsistencies in the taught line from Advanced Instructors. I even had a discussion with my regional DE chief recently about it. In a single weekend I had 4 AEs ride with me and no 2 had me on the same line. Some of the differences were very dramatic such as over 100' difference in opinions on where to turn in (early versus late) and entry position in middle versus outside of the track into a corner. What is really strange is I see alot more consistency from regular Instructors.
06-04-2010, 09:09 PM
#34
Race Director
10 GT3, the inconsistency is also brought up to me with my students. I do the correct thing and teach the DE line. I do not deviate from that line that is outlined in the students course material and what is taught in the class room. I know some instructors that that it on their own and think they have a better/safer line.
I do not exactly drive the DE line when I am on the track unless my student is in the car. The only time I will show a student a different line is if they ask about it and are at the level to check that line out.
I do not exactly drive the DE line when I am on the track unless my student is in the car. The only time I will show a student a different line is if they ask about it and are at the level to check that line out.
06-04-2010, 11:10 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
I am 100% for regular instructor training. One of the key things I have noticed over the last couple of years is inconsistencies in the taught line from Advanced Instructors. I even had a discussion with my regional DE chief recently about it. In a single weekend I had 4 AEs ride with me and no 2 had me on the same line. Some of the differences were very dramatic such as over 100' difference in opinions on where to turn in (early versus late) and entry position in middle versus outside of the track into a corner. What is really strange is I see alot more consistency from regular Instructors.
Are you actually complaining that the instructors whom the CDI thinks are best suited to instruct more-skilled drivers illustrate different ways around the track?
Do you actually think there is one line? One way around the track?
Are you actually surprised there is more consistency of line taught to beginners than to advanced drivers?
And you think you're ready to instruct?
Incredible.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
06-05-2010, 09:49 AM
#36
+1 on VR. I am in an advanced drivers group since half a year and want to learn different lines. There is not "one line". Just think about a late pass and the adjustments you need to make to do this safely for both cars.
VR - I liked your "old" avatar better ...
VR - I liked your "old" avatar better ...
06-05-2010, 11:42 AM
#37
Race Director
Of course there is just not one line. There are many, depending on the car and drivers skill and if you are making a pass into a corner and so forth.
However with new students in there 1-3rd DE for example I have seen various lines taugh and this can confuse the student.
However with new students in there 1-3rd DE for example I have seen various lines taugh and this can confuse the student.
06-05-2010, 04:39 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Wow. With respect, please reread what you typed, in the context of advanced instructing and advanced driving.
Are you actually complaining that the instructors whom the CDI thinks are best suited to instruct more-skilled drivers illustrate different ways around the track?
Do you actually think there is one line? One way around the track?
Are you actually surprised there is more consistency of line taught to beginners than to advanced drivers?
And you think you're ready to instruct?
Incredible.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Are you actually complaining that the instructors whom the CDI thinks are best suited to instruct more-skilled drivers illustrate different ways around the track?
Do you actually think there is one line? One way around the track?
Are you actually surprised there is more consistency of line taught to beginners than to advanced drivers?
And you think you're ready to instruct?
Incredible.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
06-05-2010, 06:18 PM
#39
The Penguin King
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The curriculum reads more like driving instruction for instructors than advanced instructor training. I'd love to get training in how to instruct advanced drivers.
We have an excellent instructor training program at LSRPCA, that works on how to teach people how to drive. It involves classroom and on-track role playing. I would love to see a program that does something similar for instructing advanced drivers. Personally I think that is where the need is.
I get instruction in driving any chance I can get by inviting other instructors to ride with me. We should all be doing this IMHO.
We have an excellent instructor training program at LSRPCA, that works on how to teach people how to drive. It involves classroom and on-track role playing. I would love to see a program that does something similar for instructing advanced drivers. Personally I think that is where the need is.
I get instruction in driving any chance I can get by inviting other instructors to ride with me. We should all be doing this IMHO.
06-06-2010, 09:12 AM
#41
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There is a reason that the entire track is paved, look left and right. There is also an appropriate time to seek the grass. Still working on my use of the English language to communicate left, right gas and brake. Evidently holy f@@k and your gonna kill us need some refinement. I have spent 20+ years dumbing myself down for my 9 to 5 gig. Learning to drive, meeting/talking to awesome people and having the joy of teaching newbies has kept me marginally sane. Those that know me might beg to differ. Just sayin'.
06-06-2010, 09:28 AM
#42
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I would participate in any advanced training that anybody offered. It ain't about knowing to drive....observation and communication. I did the PCA National Instructors thing at VIR a couple of weeks ago....my mentor, with less than 10 words told me evry thing I need to know about getting around a course I have 80 days on. He did drive a BMW.....werd
06-06-2010, 11:36 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
To give an example I attended a couple of track days last year at a brand new track in Oregon (Oregon Raceway Park or ORP for short). The event was a school for PCA instructors to familiarize themselves with the new track before having to instruct there and was by invitation only. Nobody attending had driven the track before and it was VERY apparent by the end of the first day that there was a vast difference in the driving abilities of those that attended....and they were all instructors. The CDI for the event even commented that many of his own instructors were obviously "one track wonders".
Now I'm sure that many of the instructors having a tough time that day were excellent instructors at their home track. They knew their home track well and could communicate effectively but they clearly didn't understand the theory well enough to apply it to their own driving on an unfamiliar track. The event really demonstrated that a lot of the instructors needed to upgrade their driving knowledge and skills. Hence I think a course for experienced instructors that focuses on driving skills is an excellent idea. I think that there should be stringent entrance requirements to that course so that the graduates can be relied upon everywhere as truly knowing their stuff.
Now I'm sure that many of the instructors having a tough time that day were excellent instructors at their home track. They knew their home track well and could communicate effectively but they clearly didn't understand the theory well enough to apply it to their own driving on an unfamiliar track. The event really demonstrated that a lot of the instructors needed to upgrade their driving knowledge and skills. Hence I think a course for experienced instructors that focuses on driving skills is an excellent idea. I think that there should be stringent entrance requirements to that course so that the graduates can be relied upon everywhere as truly knowing their stuff.
+1. I have a similar experience with my former region in Zone 8. While I had always done well at DE's and was often on-par with many of the instructors at the various "home tracks" we went to, there were definitely a significant number of instructors who had been driving at these tracks for decades and really had the "home track advantage."
Well just for kicks and giggles, we tried a new track that literally none of the instructors had been to yet. Consequently, I saw so many variations on line theory (many of them I knew to be just plain wrong). By the end of the day, I was consistently the second-fastest car there. The fastest, I'm pleased to report, was an instructor.
So yes, I think some sort of forced national PCA standard would be great. At the very least, if they're going to be instructing for DE's. Autox and smaller DE's shouldn't be included, given how difficult it could be to find certified instructors. Hell, I instructed on a couple smaller DE's for this very reason.
Speaking of which, I need to get my car up here and get myself involved again...
06-06-2010, 11:47 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
Wow. With respect, please reread what you typed, in the context of advanced instructing and advanced driving.
Are you actually complaining that the instructors whom the CDI thinks are best suited to instruct more-skilled drivers illustrate different ways around the track?
Do you actually think there is one line? One way around the track?
Are you actually surprised there is more consistency of line taught to beginners than to advanced drivers?
And you think you're ready to instruct?
Incredible.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Are you actually complaining that the instructors whom the CDI thinks are best suited to instruct more-skilled drivers illustrate different ways around the track?
Do you actually think there is one line? One way around the track?
Are you actually surprised there is more consistency of line taught to beginners than to advanced drivers?
And you think you're ready to instruct?
Incredible.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
I should note, however, that there have been many instances where looking at how a low-hp 914 drives the track and comparing it to the line I think my 350+ hp 951 should take have actually influenced me for the better. But this merely emphasizes the point that there are many fast ways to get around a track.