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Upside Down In A Lemon's Race....

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Old 03-08-2010, 05:50 PM
  #16  
disasterman
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It looked like a Nascar push from the left side green car. The head/neck movement without the Hans is the scary thing to me. His head accelerates rapidly at impact with the wall in the direction of the impact. Even in Lemons, Hans type devices should be mandatory.
Old 03-08-2010, 06:00 PM
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Bob Rouleau

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I see a harness. Full screen on youtube helps.
Old 03-08-2010, 06:08 PM
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Chads996
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Relax folks. Lemons requires full safety gear. Full cages, seats, harnesses and neck protection (of some kind). Many wear Hans for the CMP event. All cars require safety inspections.

As for the racing, yes...it is most certainly "who-cares" racing. with 85 to 90+ cars on the grid, I challenge anyone to find a good line.

Is it fun? Hell Yes. I have run 3 races personally. Seen cars burst into flames, flip over, crash etc. Something to remember, the fastest speed is approx 60mph on the back straight and then right back down to crawling. 90% of the race is that way. It's like an overgrown autocross course that repeats itself. Total fun.

It's a shame that the drive got hurt. But I am happy to hear he will be ok.

Chad
Old 03-08-2010, 06:08 PM
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gomez1
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No hans and no full containment seat. Sparco Pro ADV would have helped.
Old 03-08-2010, 06:10 PM
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To me this looks more dangerous than "normal" track days.
Old 03-08-2010, 06:14 PM
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Chads996
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Originally Posted by gomez1
To me this looks more dangerous than "normal" track days.
You guys should learn more before judging. Seriously.

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com

Read the rules for safety.

C.
Old 03-08-2010, 06:15 PM
  #22  
Chads996
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Hell with it. Here.

3: SAFETY

3.1: Rollbar and Structure: Professionally made full roll cage required. A poorly built, improperly mounted, or badly engineered rollcage can keep you from racing: Don't show up with crap! At minimum, cage must include: Full front and rear hoop, appropriately braced to each other along the roofline; two drivers-side door bars (X-design is acceptable); appropriate main-hoop backstays with no bends, located as close to 45 degrees from horizontal as practical; one main-hoop diagonal; appropriate spreader plates and gussets; complete 360-degree welds at all joints. Each major load-bearing member must be formed from its own single, continuous tube. Shoulder-harness bars strongly encouraged, and virtually necessary for proper shoulder-harness mounting in some applications (the attachment point of all shoulder harnesses must be between zero and 15 degrees lower than the seat-entry point); dash bars very strongly encouraged.
3.1.1: Rollbar Tubing and Padding: Minimum tubing size for cars weighing under 3000 pounds as raced is 1.50" x .120" or 1.75" x .095". Cars weighing over 3000 pounds as raced must use a minimum tubing size of 1.75" x .120". Properly-bent, racecar-grade and -quality tubing is mandatory: no stretched or crushed bends allowed. DOM mild steel is very strongly recommended over ERW (seamed) tubing.
3.1.2: Don't understand any of the above? See where it states "professionally made." You shouldn't be doing this yourself.
3.1.3: All roll cage tubing must be padded with high density roll bar padding wherever a driver may contact the tube.
3.1.4: All attachment points on the vehicle must be selected and reinforced as necessary so that, in an accident, the cage will not punch through, tear, or grossly distort the attachment point. Spreader plates, backing panels, gussets, and/or other reinforcing elements are generally required to meet this goal. Cages mounted to rusty, thin, under-supported, or otherwise stupid attachment points will flunk tech immediately.
3.1.5: Waivers: Previously entered LeMons cars that don't meet the above specs must upgrade their equipment or apply for an individual grandfather waiver before showing up for the race. Be warned: Waivers aren't automatically granted.
3.2: Driver's Seat: Driver's seatback must reach above middle of helmet or higher. One-piece SFI- or FIA-rated competition seats very strongly encouraged. All seats must be very securely mounted to the floor or cage to avoid separation during a crash. All seatbacks must be securely attached to the seat base and braced or otherwise restrained against rearward failure.
3.3: Onboard Fire Extinguisher: Fully charged Purple K, Type 10B:C, or Type A:B:C extinguisher, 2.5 lbs or larger, must be located in easy reach of driver and secured via a proper, purpose-made, all-metal quick-release bracket. (In other words, just go to the damn hardware store and buy a good mount; don't use the cheap plastic thingy that came with the bottle.) No sheetmetal screws or self-tapping screws allowed in mounting.
3.4: Driver's Helmet: Undamaged, full-face Type SA helmet, Snell SA2000 or better, mandatory. FIA 8860-2000 certification is acceptable. No open-face helmets allowed, ever, period, finito. Visors must be intact and in place. Type M (in other words, any motorcycle helmets) and other non-SA helmets not allowed. Hybrid helmets are not allowed, regardless of certification. Don't know if your helmet qualifies? Gently peel back the inner padding to find the Type stamp; if it doesn't have an "SA" sticker or stamp, you're boned. Sharing of helmets, fire suits, gloves, etc. is exceedingly gross, but that's no skin off our nose--you're welcome to do it.
3.4.1: Neck Brace/Helmet Support. Racing neck braces are mandatory. Foam roll-type neck braces are the cheapest (but, naturally, also the least protective) option. Drivers with Hutchens devices, D-Cel harnesses, HANS devices, and so forth are encouraged to use those instead.
3.5: Five- or Six-Point Harnesses: Five- or six-point harnesses mandatory, including fifth or fifth/sixth "anti-submarine" belt. All harnesses must be SFI or FIA approved; dated within four years of the race; and properly mounted.
3.5.1: Harness Mounting: Grade 8 or better hardware and 3-inch or larger load washers are required when mounting to sheetmetal. Shoulder harnesses should be within 15 degrees of horizontal from load point to seat entry.
3.5.2: Anti-submarine belt(s) should be mounted vertically. If this requires cutting a hole in the seat squab, don't route the belt(s) in a way that allows them to fray on a seat spring. If vertical mounting is impractical, the mounting point should be located behind, not ahead of, the belt buckle.
3.6: Coolant: Coolant must be water only--no antifreeze, antiboil, water-wetter, or other additives allowed. (That stuff is slippery--when your car pukes its guts all over the track, we don't want to be sliding around in it.) A functional catch tank is mandatory.
3.7: Fire-Retardant Clothing: Full SFI 3.2/A- or FIA 8856-2000-certified fire-retardant driving suits must be worn by all drivers at all times while inside the car. If using a single-layer SFI 3.2/A1 or 3.2/A3 suit, driver must also wear fire-retardant SFI- or FIA-cetified longjohns. Multilayer suits rated SFI 3.2/A5 or higher are highly recommended and may be worn without longjohns. Fire-retardant FIA- or SFI-rated racing gloves and shoes are required. And yeah, while they may very well be superior, military-spec or firefighter suits are not FIA- or SFI-rated, so we can't accept them.
3.7.1: Socks and Other Undergarments: Socks, shirts, and other undergarments made of synthetic material (including nylon, orlon, Spandex, etc.) will melt to the skin in a fire and are strictly forbidden. Nomex socks are very strongly encouraged. While cotton or wool socks are allowed, be aware that cotton and wool provide no protection and may increase the severity of burns.
3.8: Glass, Headlights, and Taillights: Each racetrack has its own requirements for glass, headlights, taillights, etc. Please see that race's specific Event Page for details. It's your job to know the spec for the race that you've entered.
3.8.1: Brake Lights: At all times, each car must have at least one working brake light that is easily seen from the rear. The light should be located where a mild rear-end impact won't break or obscure it. Good spots include inside the rear-windshield area; on top of the parcel shelf; and on the deck at the base of the rear-windshield area.
3.8.2: Headlights for Night Racing: In the rare case of a night race, headlights may be required. See the Event Page of the race that you've entered for details.
3.9: Airbags: All airbags must be disarmed and removed, and all airbag housings must be open for inspection at tech. (Remember, airbag removal can be really dangerous--please try not to blow your damn fool head off. If you don't know what you're doing, call in an expert. Let him blow HIS damn fool head off.)
3.10: Window Nets and Driver Egress: Window nets are not mandatory. While a window net can provide hand and arm protection in a rollover, it can also contribute to injury or death in a fire. If you decide to use one, it is critical that all of your drivers are well practiced at removing the net. It is also critical that they are well practiced at releasing belts, cooling tubes, radio wires, and any other attachments quickly. All drivers must be able to exit the car rapidly under potentially life-threatening conditions. IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT EVERY TEAM MEMBER PRACTICE EMERGENCY CAR ESCAPES BEFORE RACING!
3.11: Zero Tolerance for Fuel Leaks: Get your fuel system in good working order! If any staff member sees a suspect leak you will be immediately black-flagged and sent to the tech shed. You will have ONLY ONE CHANCE to completely repair any fuel leak. If the staff member detects a second instance of leakage, regardless of cause, your car must be permanently removed from the race. No exceptions.
3.12: Noise Limit: Our noise limit is 92dB @ 50 feet @ W.O.T. What that boils down to is no straight pipes allowed; please use at least one muffler or resonator. With these heaps, a single Cherry Bomb or Supertrapp is usually plenty.
3.13: Nerf Bars Not Allowed: Added structural elements that extend past the original bodywork line are not allowed. In other words, no nerf bars, wheel-protection cages, or crash bars. (Worried about your car being damaged? Here's an idea--don't hit anyone.)
3.14: Battery: All batteries must be fully secured via proper, purpose-built battery brackets, battery frames, or sealed battery boxes. Zip ties, bungee cords, duct tape, macrame plant holders, and other lame workarounds won't cut it. Positive ("hot") terminals must be in a sealed battery box or covered with insulating material.
3.15: Mirrors: All cars must have at least one interior mirror. Cars with OE-type interior mirrors must also have a driver's-side exterior mirror. Passenger's-side exterior mirrors are optional. Cars with panoramic or "Wink"-type interior mirrors don't need exterior mirrors, but can use them if they like. All glass on exterior mirrors must be covered with sturdy clear tape.
3.16: Bad-Weather Visibility: It's your job to figure out which bad-weather visibility aids will be most useful for your car. Wipers, Rain-X, tearoffs, small squeegee-wielding children tied to the hood, etc. are all acceptable. If your visibility appears compromised during the race for any reason, you may be black-flagged until conditions improve.
3.17: Car Numbers: Numbers must be shown on both sides, and also the hood or roof. Car numbers must be at least 12 inches tall and clearly readable. Numbers must be white on black background or black on white background--any other combination must be approved in advance by the organizers. Cars that show up with incorrect, improperly formatted, or otherwise screwed-up numbers will fail tech instantly.
3.18: Fuel Bulkhead: The fuel-tank area must be totally separated from the driving compartment. For example, if the fuel tank is in the trunk area, any openings between the trunk and the cockpit must be permanently sealed with bolted, riveted, or welded metal panels. OE fuel tanks that are separate from, and located completely below, the trunk floor or rear-cabin floor are acceptable. If the fuel tank can't be completely separated from the cockpit by metal panels, a metal-encased, FIA- certified fuel cell with all related compliant fittings must be used.
3.19: Fuel, Oil, and Coolant Lines in the Cockpit: Any fuel, oil, or coolant lines that pass through the driving compartment must be encased by heavy-duty conduit, durable steel or aluminum pipe, or strong metal plate. OE metal lines in good condition in their original location are exempt from this rule, but encasement is still recommended.
3.20: No Open Sunroofs: All sunroof openings must be covered by either the original sunroof panel; a new panel securely fixed into place; or securely fixed mesh with openings no larger than 1/2-inch each.
3.21: Open T-Tops and Convertibles: Arm restraints are required when driving an open T-Top or convertible.
3.22: Engine Firewall: Gaps or holes in the engine firewall must be sealed up with metal plate or OE-type grommets. If you can see through it, we want it closed up.
3.23: Master Electrical Kill Switch: All cars must have a racing-type master electrical kill switch. The control for this switch should be red; the OFF position should be clearly indicated; the switch should be easily accessible from outside the car; and the switch should be clearly marked by a three-inch or larger lightning-bolt symbol. Both the main battery circuit and the ignition circuit must be interrupted by the kill switch (if you don't do that, the engine may still run off the alternator even after the battery circuit is disconnected). The switch should be located on the cowl; or on the outside edge of the dash near the driver's-side window opening; or on the deck at the base of the rear windshield. Don't put the switch where it's likely to be hit by another car in traffic or crushed in an accident.
3.24: Cockpit De-Scuzzification: Anything loose in the cockpit can be a deadly missile in a crash; remove or secure any loose items. Loose wiring can cause fires and interfere with the driver; remove or secure all wiring, hoses, and cables. Carpets, insulation, and plastics will burn quickly and release poisonous fumes; strip as much of these out of the cockpit as practical.
3.25: Fuel Tanks/Fuel Cells: All fuel systems, including OE fuel tanks and aftermarket fuel cells, must be sound and in good working order. Maximum allowed capacity is 24 gallons or less, including additional tanks/cells if fitted.
3.25.1: Aftermarket Fuel Cells Versus OE Fuel Tanks. Fuel cells are allowed, but they are NOT mandatory. Don't make the rookie mistake of assuming that anything billed as a "fuel cell" is safer than a sound OE fuel tank. High-quality, professionally constructed, correctly installed fuel cells tend to be safer than OE tanks; cheap and/or poorly installed fuel cells tend to be less safe than OE tanks.
3.25.2: Fuel Cell Installation: If you decide to install a fuel cell, it must be securely mounted in a professional manner and must be installed in a safe location where it won't be damaged in an impact or drag on the ground if the car leaves the track. All aftermarket fuel components must use threaded fittings and appropriate hose types, and must include all appropriate racecar-quality vents, valves, and other safety features. Fuel-cell installations will be judged on their overall execution and apparent safety. Cars whose fuel cells do not feature internal foam, a puncture-resistant bladder, and/or metal encasement are considerably more likely to fail tech inspection.
3.26: Exhaust System: A professional-quality exhaust system is required. Exhaust outlets and tubing must be designed, routed, and maintained to avoid heating the fuel tank(s) and/or fuel-system components. FUEL HEATING IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND MUST BE AVOIDED AT ALL TIMES!
3.26.1: Exhaust system may not dump ahead of the driver, and must not allow undue levels of exhaust to reach the driver's compartment.
3.26.2: All teams must maintain their exhaust in good condition, without leaks, throughout the event.
3.26.3: Exhaust system must include at least two professional-quality flexible exhaust hangers (ie, not baling wire or plumber's tape) aft of the collector. All exhaust joints must be properly slip-jointed, properly bolted or welded, and must not leak.
3.27: Floor Jack and Jackstands at Tech: All teams must bring at least one sturdy floor jack, and at least two sturdy jackstands, to tech inspection. You will be responsible for safely raising your car off the ground during tech.
3.28: Fenders Required: All cars must have fenders. Duh.
3.29: No Flashing Lights or Sirens: No working sirens, flashing lights, or similar emergency-vehicle stuff allowed. Anything that could make your car be confused for an actual emergency vehicle will get you black-flagged.
3.30: Tow-Strap Locations: Please identify (or add) good, strong, clearly marked tow-strap locations to your car front and rear. The faster we can get you hooked up, the faster you can get back on the track. (The word "TOW" with an arrow is acceptable marking.)
Old 03-08-2010, 06:17 PM
  #23  
FredC
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Originally Posted by dp35
Another view of the incident.

One of the drivers involved in this crash received a lifetime ban from Lemons racing. Take a guess which one.
my wife sees this "another view" video and it's over for me and racing... The guy crawling out with no one to help and then the car catching on fire and no one to help...she'd be mortified by the visual...(to be clear, i am not saying i think there is anything wrong with the whole thing... she would though).
Old 03-08-2010, 06:19 PM
  #24  
Sean F
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Originally Posted by FredC
my wife sees this "another view" video and it's over for me and racing... The guy crawling out with no one to help and then the car catching on fire and no one to help...she'd be mortified by the visual...(to be clear, i am not saying i think there is anything wrong with the whole thing... she would though).
+1 gazillion
Old 03-08-2010, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FredC
my wife sees this "another view" video and it's over for me and racing... The guy crawling out with no one to help and then the car catching on fire and no one to help...she'd be mortified by the visual...(to be clear, i am not saying i think there is anything wrong with the whole thing... she would though).
You ain't kidding........
Old 03-08-2010, 06:33 PM
  #26  
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Cheap cars leads to high risk driving I guess. The green and white (Nissan maybe?) was moving to the right before he passed. It seems likely that the green and white car continued to move right and clipped his left rear sending him into the wall. Senseless in terms of a 24 hour race!
Old 03-08-2010, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Chads996
You guys should learn more before judging. Seriously.

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com

Read the rules for safety.

C.
I'm sure the organizers have the best of intentions with the extensive rules for safety. But I've seen so many videos (too many) like this in the past 3 months from LeMons races that it makes me wonder. Search for Lemons crash or Roll over at Lemons on YouTube and it's like a full page of videos. Just way too many roll overs IMHO. This type of racing is not for me. sorry
Old 03-08-2010, 06:40 PM
  #28  
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Looks like the shoulder belt was not attached at all on the right side. Also, another belt was flying around before he appeared to release the belts.

Akso some very bad driving and lack of awareness of where the corners of the various cars were.
Old 03-08-2010, 06:43 PM
  #29  
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Chad - the rules look perfectly sensible. My concern is when you load up a track with a lot of cars and how many inexperienced drivers? - you get into a situation where crapping a car is no big deal.

I get the same uneasy feeling when I read about guys with nice cars saying they are buying some sort of a beater for DE because they worry about having an accident with their "good car". Yeah, that's just what I want around me on a track, guys driving machines they don't care if they crash.
Old 03-08-2010, 06:48 PM
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Looks like no hood pins and it only has "pool noodle" padding on the roll bar. Things that the rules don't require, but that should be done for common sense.


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