New GT3R Hybrid?
02-11-2010, 03:58 AM
#2
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Yup, sounds like mechanical KERS...similar to the one Williams F1 started with and then shelved.
Rumor is that mechanical KERS might be introduced to F1 in place of the electrical KERS in 2012?
Interesting stuff...the only thing I've ever worked on that spun at those speeds were air bearing inertial sensors.
Rumor is that mechanical KERS might be introduced to F1 in place of the electrical KERS in 2012?
Interesting stuff...the only thing I've ever worked on that spun at those speeds were air bearing inertial sensors.
02-11-2010, 10:00 AM
#3
Race Director
The question I have is weight. Flywheels at 40,000 RPM sound fast, but that technology (40,000 rpm discs, bearings and containment) are common in turbine engines especially smaller ones. They could even run them to 60k rpm. However doing that takes good bearing systems and given it being next to the driver probably some form of metal containment structure for overspeed burst protection. i would guess this system would have to add 50-100lbs given the 3 motors (two wheel motors and 1 flyhweel generator) and the actual flywheel with bearings & containent/support.
Also given the location it seems like it will be powered by an electric motor/generator at the flywheel since i can't see any physical link between the wheels and the flywheel occuring.
Also given the location it seems like it will be powered by an electric motor/generator at the flywheel since i can't see any physical link between the wheels and the flywheel occuring.
02-11-2010, 05:49 PM
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To me "purpose-built racing car" does not mean a race car based on a production car, but would rather suggest that they will be building a predecessor to the RS Spyder.
02-11-2010, 08:18 PM
#5
911 GT3 R Hybrid to World Debut in Geneva
Porsche Intelligent Performance to make Race Cars even More Efficient
ATLANTA - February 11, 2010 - 110 years after Ferdinand Porsche developed the world's first hybrid, the Lohner-Porsche, Porsche engineers are now expanding this visionary drive concept with a production-based GT race car: Over the past 45 years, Porsche 911 race cars have recorded more than 20,000 victories and on March 4, a Porsche 911 GT3 featuring an innovative hybrid drive will make its debut at the Geneva Motor Show, opening a new chapter in the history of Porsche.
This innovative hybrid technology has been developed especially for racing, differentiating itself from conventional hybrid systems by way of its configuration and components. In the case of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, the front axle features two electric motors, each developing 60 kW and supplement the 480 hp, naturally aspirated four-liter flat-six that drives the rear wheels. Instead of the heavy batteries usually found in a hybrid road car, an electrical flywheel power generator is installed inside next to the driver delivering energy to the electric motors.
The flywheel generator is also an electric motor, with its rotor spinning at speeds of up to 40,000 rpm while mechanically storing energy. The flywheel generator is charged whenever the driver applies the brakes, as the two front axle electric motors reverse their role and act as generators. Then, when accelerating out of a bend or while overtaking, the driver can use the extra energy from the charged flywheel generator, sending up to 120 kW of stored kinetic energy to the motors. This additional power is available after each charge for approximately six to eight seconds.
Energy formerly converted into heat upon each brake application, and therefore wasted, is now converted into additional drive power in a very efficient manner.
In addition to increasing available drive power, depending on racing conditions, the hybrid drive can also be called upon to save fuel. By increasing the efficiency and, accordingly, the performance of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, reductions can be made to the weight of the fuel tank or the car can make less frequent pit stops, for example.
After its debut in Geneva, the 911 GT3 R Hybrid will be tested in long-distance races on the Nürburgring. The highlight of this test program will be the 24 Hours on the Nordschleife of Nürburgring, May 15-16, 2010. The focus is not on the 911 GT3 R Hybrid winning the race, but rather spearheading technology as a "racing lab." The intent is to provide hands-on know-how for the subsequent use of hybrid technology in road-going sports cars.
The 911 GT3 R Hybrid is a perfect example of the Porsche Intelligent Performance philosophy, a principle to be found in every Porsche: More power on less fuel, more efficiency and lower CO2 emissions - on the track and on the road.
Porsche Intelligent Performance to make Race Cars even More Efficient
ATLANTA - February 11, 2010 - 110 years after Ferdinand Porsche developed the world's first hybrid, the Lohner-Porsche, Porsche engineers are now expanding this visionary drive concept with a production-based GT race car: Over the past 45 years, Porsche 911 race cars have recorded more than 20,000 victories and on March 4, a Porsche 911 GT3 featuring an innovative hybrid drive will make its debut at the Geneva Motor Show, opening a new chapter in the history of Porsche.
This innovative hybrid technology has been developed especially for racing, differentiating itself from conventional hybrid systems by way of its configuration and components. In the case of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, the front axle features two electric motors, each developing 60 kW and supplement the 480 hp, naturally aspirated four-liter flat-six that drives the rear wheels. Instead of the heavy batteries usually found in a hybrid road car, an electrical flywheel power generator is installed inside next to the driver delivering energy to the electric motors.
The flywheel generator is also an electric motor, with its rotor spinning at speeds of up to 40,000 rpm while mechanically storing energy. The flywheel generator is charged whenever the driver applies the brakes, as the two front axle electric motors reverse their role and act as generators. Then, when accelerating out of a bend or while overtaking, the driver can use the extra energy from the charged flywheel generator, sending up to 120 kW of stored kinetic energy to the motors. This additional power is available after each charge for approximately six to eight seconds.
Energy formerly converted into heat upon each brake application, and therefore wasted, is now converted into additional drive power in a very efficient manner.
In addition to increasing available drive power, depending on racing conditions, the hybrid drive can also be called upon to save fuel. By increasing the efficiency and, accordingly, the performance of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, reductions can be made to the weight of the fuel tank or the car can make less frequent pit stops, for example.
After its debut in Geneva, the 911 GT3 R Hybrid will be tested in long-distance races on the Nürburgring. The highlight of this test program will be the 24 Hours on the Nordschleife of Nürburgring, May 15-16, 2010. The focus is not on the 911 GT3 R Hybrid winning the race, but rather spearheading technology as a "racing lab." The intent is to provide hands-on know-how for the subsequent use of hybrid technology in road-going sports cars.
The 911 GT3 R Hybrid is a perfect example of the Porsche Intelligent Performance philosophy, a principle to be found in every Porsche: More power on less fuel, more efficiency and lower CO2 emissions - on the track and on the road.
02-11-2010, 08:19 PM
#6
02-11-2010, 08:44 PM
#7
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Sounds like a perpetual motion machine. : (almost) You slow down, the energy is stored in the flywheel motor, and then you stomp on the gas out of the turn, and you get 8 seconds of WOT operation before you stomp on the brakes and start the entire thing over again. 
Actually, it seems pretty cool Hard to imagine that the spinning flywheel motor could store 120kw/seconds. Thats around 160hp. Heck, get 4 of these,(one on each wheel) along with a big LiPo batter pack, for the long straights and to make up for the gaps in the non -perpetual motion drive system you have an electric RSR that has 600hp+ and might just be as quick as the gas version.
Actually, it seems pretty cool Hard to imagine that the spinning flywheel motor could store 120kw/seconds. Thats around 160hp. Heck, get 4 of these,(one on each wheel) along with a big LiPo batter pack, for the long straights and to make up for the gaps in the non -perpetual motion drive system you have an electric RSR that has 600hp+ and might just be as quick as the gas version.
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02-11-2010, 08:53 PM
#8
Drifting
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....
This innovative hybrid technology has been developed especially for racing, differentiating itself from conventional hybrid systems by way of its configuration and components. In the case of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, the front axle features two electric motors, each developing 60 kW and supplement the 480 hp, naturally aspirated four-liter flat-six that drives the rear wheels. Instead of the heavy batteries usually found in a hybrid road car, an electrical flywheel power generator is installed inside next to the driver delivering energy to the electric motors.
In addition to increasing available drive power, depending on racing conditions, the hybrid drive can also be called upon to save fuel. By increasing the efficiency and, accordingly, the performance of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, reductions can be made to the weight of the fuel tank or the car can make less frequent pit stops, for example.
After its debut in Geneva, the 911 GT3 R Hybrid will be tested in long-distance races on the Nürburgring. The highlight of this test program will be the 24 Hours on the Nordschleife of Nürburgring, May 15-16, 2010. The focus is not on the 911 GT3 R Hybrid winning the race, but rather spearheading technology as a "racing lab." The intent is to provide hands-on know-how for the subsequent use of hybrid technology in road-going sports cars.
This innovative hybrid technology has been developed especially for racing, differentiating itself from conventional hybrid systems by way of its configuration and components. In the case of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, the front axle features two electric motors, each developing 60 kW and supplement the 480 hp, naturally aspirated four-liter flat-six that drives the rear wheels. Instead of the heavy batteries usually found in a hybrid road car, an electrical flywheel power generator is installed inside next to the driver delivering energy to the electric motors.
In addition to increasing available drive power, depending on racing conditions, the hybrid drive can also be called upon to save fuel. By increasing the efficiency and, accordingly, the performance of the 911 GT3 R Hybrid, reductions can be made to the weight of the fuel tank or the car can make less frequent pit stops, for example.
After its debut in Geneva, the 911 GT3 R Hybrid will be tested in long-distance races on the Nürburgring. The highlight of this test program will be the 24 Hours on the Nordschleife of Nürburgring, May 15-16, 2010. The focus is not on the 911 GT3 R Hybrid winning the race, but rather spearheading technology as a "racing lab." The intent is to provide hands-on know-how for the subsequent use of hybrid technology in road-going sports cars.
kind of sad to see Porsche entering a race it has no intentions of winning (isn't that what the test track is for?) but I know it's all about the GREEN headlines in the papers...
02-11-2010, 08:58 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Have to think the "reductions in the weight of the fuel tank" will be a small percentage of the weight increase from the "hybrid" KERS and AWD systems.
kind of sad to see Porsche entering a race it has no intentions of winning (isn't that what the test track is for?) but I know it's all about the GREEN headlines in the papers...
kind of sad to see Porsche entering a race it has no intentions of winning (isn't that what the test track is for?) but I know it's all about the GREEN headlines in the papers...
Exactly. This car begs the question: WHY???
Porsche nearly went out of business due to hubris & stupidity. They need this project like a hole in the head.
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02-11-2010, 09:40 PM
#11
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Porsche nearly went out of business by not re-investing in its product development (944/911/928 in the late eighties) and having too-high of a cost base for those cars.
I actually believe they have bigger goals than just grabbing green headlines. It may not be realistic to expect a win (yet), but it is cetainly a way to accelerate the developmental curve. KERS did work to various extents in F1 in just that one season and although it was implemented in a poor way, I do feel that if it remained, it would have been developed to the stage where is would have been mandatory to be competitive. The basic concepts of regenerative braking is not complicated and with development, I think it can improve the overall efficiency (read speed) of a race car.
Plus, I would not be hugely suprised to see it actually end up doing OK at the Ring...
I actually believe they have bigger goals than just grabbing green headlines. It may not be realistic to expect a win (yet), but it is cetainly a way to accelerate the developmental curve. KERS did work to various extents in F1 in just that one season and although it was implemented in a poor way, I do feel that if it remained, it would have been developed to the stage where is would have been mandatory to be competitive. The basic concepts of regenerative braking is not complicated and with development, I think it can improve the overall efficiency (read speed) of a race car.
Plus, I would not be hugely suprised to see it actually end up doing OK at the Ring...
02-12-2010, 12:47 AM
#13
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I think they are trying to be ahead of the game - seeing that racing is getting "greener" by the year. They are big enough that they can pioneer a technology, convice a sanctioning body to put it in the rulebook, then dominate while others catch up.
