Charles A. Toupin

Hi guys,

A friend of mine has a street 996 GT3 that has been transformed into a GT3 Cup copy, save for the drivetrain. It still has the stock engine plus a few goodies (mainly exhaust) and the stock gearbox. Otherwise the car is like a cup car.

I was reading the PCA Club racing rules and it does not seem to fit in GTB (no GT3 allowed), the GTC and GTA says that it has to be a non street legal factory race car, which is not, and GT classes does not have a clissification for watercooled other than turbo 996 or 986...

Will it benefit from an exemption and being considered as a cup car?

Thanks

Charles

Flying Finn

I don't see how it could since the drivetrain isn't cup.

993 RS clones were used to be classified as RSs with stick engines but nowadays aren't unless it's basically a 100% copy of the original.

Geoffrey

That is a problem in the current rule book, that car has no class it can run it if the rules are taken exactly as written. However, I think the most likely class would be GTA-1 when you speak with Donna Amica.

Charles A. Toupin

Thanks guys!

But we would like to run together in GT3... We will talk to Ms. Amico!

Thanks

Charles

Leigh2

I have the same issue with my 997 GT3 which is a converted street car with a stock drive train. Donna tells me that I'll be in GTA2 and that to race as a "Cup" car the vehicle has to have a Cup VIN number; period. However I expect to be out there on the track with the cups but technically in a different classification. I suspect this situation could change in the future as the rules for the "stock" classes continue to morph. Currently they don't seem to anticipate the GT3s very well as near as I can tell.

Charles A. Toupin

Do the all the GT cars (including GTA-B-C) start the race together?

Thanks

C.

Geoffrey

It will depend greatly on the race size, location, etc. Most of the time, yes, the GTC 3 /4 / A1, A2 all race together. However, at the larger races like Sebring and Watkins Glen, sometimes the GTC3/4 cars race together. We also have a GTC5 class now with the 2010 Cup Car. The GTB cars are more like stock cars than factory race cars and tend to run in the next lower run group.

We are working to find a way to write the GT (1-6) class rules such that the GT3 watercooled engine can have a performance factor and fall into the class structure. MY OPINION is that we need to move the current GT1-6 classes down the scale at least 2 notches (GT1 becomes GT3) with the current performance factor breakpoints (new GT3 would have the current GT1 breakpoints). We then need to determine a performance factor for the GT3 engine(s) and I think it should be more than one, one based on GT3 engines with a single throttle body, and GT3 engines with multiple throttle bodies. I believe these cars would then tend to fall into the newly created GT1 and GT2 classifications based on weight and potential output for the displacement. Some may end up falling into the GT3 class (current GT1). This would also capture the air cooled cars with watercooled engines.

fryd

Charles - you should look at the rules for "J" class and see how far this car has gone beyond that classification and whether some of those mods can be undone. This car in GTC3 will get smoked by the "real" Cup cars that are lighter, more rigid, and higher hp. GT3's do not fit into GTB. If you're in GTA1 or 2, you're then racing against GrandAm cars, SWC and RSRs..so forget about finishing anything other than last!

Charles A. Toupin

Mr. Fry, that's the problem. The car is a DE car. My friend wanted to have the street car reliability but cup car handling. I don't think he will put back things in to make it J prepared... And we would like to play together in the standard GT class (I have a 951 that will most probably be a GT-3 class car). We are not looking after wins or cheap plastic trophies, we are starting as racers and we'd like to race "together".

Based on weight and power, we are not far one from another. He is heavier but more powerful. He keeps the engine nearly stock, so if I use more boost I can be closer to him.

Geoffrey, I understand the GT state of mind, but maybe dyno sheets would make it fairer... unless... well... you know how it works better than me!

Tx

C.

Leigh2

I'm in the same situation wanting street car reliability but cup car SAFETY and handling. Geoffrey I'm glad to hear that some consideration is being given to re-classifying the GT3s that have been modified to race and not pitting us against the Grand-Am cars. I'm a newbie to PCA racing (sent my license application in today) and find the rules to be quite complex to say the least. regardless I'm in it for fun and if I have to be fodder until the rules are adjusted I'm still in

Charles A. Toupin

Yep! The same for us! But it would be nice to have the GT3's be in the standard GT category.



c.

Geoffrey

MY OPINION is that the GT3 engine is complicated because the power output ranges from 335whp to 510whp (on the dyno I use) from 2000cup to 3.8l DP. Beacuse there is such a wide range of power available, the GT3 engine is difficult to classify. I believe that if you break it down between the induction types it will be easier. However, Donna is running this issue and these are only my opinions.

mooty

i like what geoffrey is saying about reclassifying GT1-6 and possibly fit GT3 (both the car and the engine) into some class.

putting a street GT3 however modified into GTA is the dumbest thing pca can do. and that's how the rules are right now. putting in in GTC is debatable as well. but here we have a car that's getting cheaper and a great, if not the best, racing platform right now (that are not factory race cars). so why is this car basically excluded from racing.

yes, J STOCK is possible. but when the pca steward were out here on the west coast they noticed that all the cars on race grid are full on race cars. very few if any "stock" or "prepared" cars in CA.

i think it be very nice to stuff a GT3 engine in a cayman and see what i can do... but where can it run?

Geoffrey

The GT classes don't talk about the chassis. Today, a GT3 chassis is allowed in the GT class structure, however, it just cannot have a GT3 based engine.

Charles A. Toupin

That's exactly where the problem lies. If a GT3 engine can produce 500rwhp, then a 140hp/liter factor sounds ok to me. But I'm no expert at all.

Quite frankly, my 951 has a 200hp/L factor, and I'm pretty sure I'll never be able to have 500 reliable hp out of my engine. So in the end, it all ends up to a power to weight ratio within the specific class.



c.