Lemming

My wife is happy that my mistress is a car

Potomac-Greg

Tim:

I may be behind the curve here, but were you featured in GRM magazine in the UTCC? Cool write up.

Lemming

I wouldn't call it a feature, there was a short blurb just like for all the drivers.

M758

Still more than most of us get...

My car has been in the background in pictures on GRM at least once. I was alos quoted in an Excellence article with a photo. However never had even a short blurb about me or the car.

So you still earn a

Bryan Watts

Depends on the car/driver. There are drivers who spend as much or more on a DE weekend as they would on a race weekend (both on the high end and on the low end). There are plenty of folks who don't buy new tires every race weekend, don't rub fenders, etc, etc who can race for the same or less than they could run a DE (perhaps less since you typically get less track time on a race weekend).

Racing is only more expensive if you make it so. At every race weekend, there are tons of folks without a shot at the podium who could easily spend less $$ and have just as much fun. There are also folks who are simply content to run in the middle or the back, so they see no need to buy new tires, etc. Of course, there are those (like me) who hate to lose and just get pissed off if they aren't running with a shot at the win. For those types, running a race weekend will definitely cost more than a DE...then again, I get bored at DE's anyway and suspect a lot of other very competitive folks do too.

M758

Same here... Frankly this is why DE would probaby cost me more than racing. If got bored in DE I would probably start modding the car more or moving to a faster car to keep interested. That would cost more money than racing the same car I have for all these 7 years. Right now my focus is on camber settings and sway bar settings. If I were in DE I might be looking at bigger turbos... That it is alot more expensive.

So in a way running in spec racing class keeps costs in check while keeping my interest up. I don't even do DE days any more. Unless I can use them for testing they are a waste of time and money to me. I would rather spend that at a race. I still get my 1 event a month when the weather is nice, but I also limit long and costly trips.

Yeah If were in DE I would probably be in 944 Turbo or 964 spending alot more money on mods or trips to far away tracks to keep my interest. So racing is actually cheaper for me.

Bryan Watts

We don't even run them for testing much, if at all, any more. The difference in speed between our car and a slower instructor could be 35+ seconds around VIR full (1:58's for us). There's only so much you can "test" in traffic like that, even with open passing.

Though the tendency to keep increasing the fun factor at a DE is to keep making the car faster, I've yet to figure out how people have any fun in something like a Ariel Atom or Radical. Not only are the cars capable of the same (or faster) laptimes as our race car, but they make up a lot more time in the corners and are slower on the straights than we are. It seems like you'd never get the chance to actually run more than 1-2 corners per lap without being held up a lot.

And a slow car is just plain boring at a DE. I have been to a DE 1-2 times in my old Spec Miata. I can have more fun in our Saab wagon with my wife, the baby, and the rear loaded down with Christmas gifts going up 220 to Roanoke, VA. The only redeeming part of the day was getting a point by from a GT3 and a Ford GT.

dblapex

Joe I like your reasoning.

I run a two car effort in SM and if you want to win at a National level in SM you can spend ALLLLLOOOOOTTTTTTTT! I very often see/smell people running $30 per gallon fuel or running other trick parts to win. If you need to know now how much money you will spend racing I suggest not racing! Or atleast just run a very limited amount and feel the water. As far as contact goes, get fast because there is little to no rubbing in the front and carnage in the middle and back.

Astroman

Bryan Watts, as usual, you speak the truth. I agree 100% with both of your posts above.

Circuit Motorsports

And people wonder why I held back so much when I started DFL behind 30 SMs because I missed qualifying.

race911

Well, I guess I can give my perspective on both points, since those are what I was out in last Friday.

Driving the Radical gets me something no production based car ever will. Ever. May not be state-of-the-art anymore. May not be the talk of the paddock anymore. But it suits me just fine for the usual 10-15 laps/day I take it out at speed. Clear laps? Depends on what's going on. We have plenty of track days here, private rentals or DE's, that are attended by 30-50 drivers. On tires with 25+ heat cycles, I ran my usual which is 7-8 sec/lap slower than the typical non-tunnel DSR that runs in Regionals. Not hard to get clean running time. Especially easy when the crowd even further thins out at the end of the day. If you happen to catch a gaggle of Miatas, well I just kinda look forward enough to time things.

Which now brings me to that why-bother-it's-so-slow SM. I've gotten my head back into the thing, and Friday I came back with 14 unimpeded laps +/- .5 sec. I found a gap each of the 3 sessions I took it out, and really concentrated. Even on those 4 year old RA1's, I managed a personal best (but only barely inside the top 50% of the last Regional). So overall I found the time worthwhile.

Bryan Watts

Having raced/driven open wheel and sports racers, I fully understand that sentiment. There's no comparison between a tin-top and a "real" race car.

I just don't enjoy making laps unless I'm either 1) racing someone, 2) qualifying so that I can race someone, or 3) making constant changes in the pits to make the car go faster so that I can beat someone.

14 straight laps without coming into the pits and without any competition just doesn't hold my interest. That said, what floats my boat is rarely what floats someone else's.

jaje

Don't forget that 2010 FF will be allowed to run the new Honda L15 engines in place of the Ford Kent engines which will give you a higher upfront cost but much lower maintenance, much higher reliability, and new in production oem parts.

race911

Go back and reread what I said: 14 laps over 3 sessions. I made changes. Nothing seemed to "work". Like most of us, 1 warmup and 2 flyers and we pretty much know which way we've gone.

But I'll stipulate that I've always been someone who enjoys going out at whatever level, in whatever car, for the enjoyment it brings me. I ran into someone Friday who was a regional champion in a class, and middling aspiring pro. I got the impression that the best memories came from the more mundane moments in the car or the paddock, and not from looking at the plastic trophy from winning the '06 or '07 championship.

93 FireHawk 968

I'd say racing is 2-3X more expensive because the entry fee is higher, the event is longer, requiring additional hotel costs, you need fresh tires and whatever costs you associate to make sure the car is perfect for the race. I do both and usually instruct at the DE to keep entry costs down. The racing may be 3X more expensive but it's certainly 3 X more exciting....

Good luck!