smlporsche

Alex-

I'm with you on taking a student out in the next higher run group that he/she is in.

I find that a "relaxed" run in either blue or white allows me to talk with my student about what I'm about to do...if i was running in black or red I'm not sure that i would want to spend too much time conversing with my student.
When rules allow and the situation dictates, I have taken my student out in the instructors run group with the motto "Sit down, shut up and hold on" . We then talk about it when back in the pits.

M758

Bob,
I have non-sliding teather HANS. Looking in the mirrors is part of racing the bulk of the racers do not have sliding tethers. Those only come into play when off track. On track you still need to be aware and HANS has never prevented that.

TedA

Bob...when you have a slow car like me this helps to prevent trains. Plus the corners are the only place I can keep up with the GT3s...

If HPDE-3 drovers can do it with NASA...PCA instructors should be able to pull it off. It ain't rocket science..........

RedlineMan

Hey Dave;

At this event, we considered White and Black as Intermediate. I'd have to say the Blacks were probably a lot more sanguine with things than the Whites were... I hope!

TedA

Moe ment ummmmm. The straights are a throw away.

RedlineMan

Mais bien sûr, Mon Ami! RSR is top shelf! Trez Bean, Baby... Trez Bean!

Indeed, I first saw this done at Mosport in '95. Driving a slow car and being a friendly sort, I've been giving late passes forever. What's another 10-15 feet of asphalt to give? No biggie.

Nah...

I had the old solid tethers, and now have the "Vision Advantage." No difference if you've learned not to lean forward. I really got it for the quick releases.

TedA

Alexis

Moderate is all I got but I can make it interestiing....

Brian P

+1

I was worried that a halo seat would interfere with my ability to see traffic around me. In practice, I've never found it to be a problem. I've often gone side by side with people through turns and a fixed tether HANS and a halo seat have never caused issues.

LPM911

for our region we have:

green - students
blue - students
white - solo
black - solo (some instructors)
red - solo (some instructors)

we had extended passing at our last event (this past weekend) and it was great. however, i didn't like that they would not let us take out white "students" in black. as an instructor, you get occasionally get asked by a white group person to ride with them. however, i want to show him/her something, i have to take them out in white which means they will miss a run session. that is the only rule i would change and i'm unclear on why you aren't allowed to take someone out in red or black. anyways, in the higher level run groups you should be comfortable to anywhere with a point by. if you weren't, our chief instructor recommended you bump yourself to white.

Bob Rouleau

Brian,

A correctly configured halo seat should be OK. Check the ones you see next time at the track. How many of them have wings which are too high and prevent the driver from seeing anything behind his door mirrors.

Just returned from a 3 day DE. Used extended passing rules. A few of us played with them and decided it is a waste of time because both cars slow down AND the guy on the dirty side of the track picks up all the marbles and A) gets a free vibro-massage for a lap or so and B) pushes the marbles onto the line.

I guess I just don't get it. OTOH we have 8 passing zones on a 2.5 mile track so passing opportunities are not far apart.

Brian P

Bob,

I should have been more clear as I was talking about a racing environment. In that environment, I might choose to concede the corner to a car with more HP until we get to a long straight so that they can pull away in a part of the track that doesn't slow me down. For example, I might battle with them at the heel of the boot at Watkins Glen. If I can stay side by side with them through that corner, then I'll likely own the corners up to the front straight and then I can let them go after that.

When I battle with them, I try to give them no more than a car width and a foot. I trust that they have the car control to not make contact and vice versa. I also try to judge whether or not they overcooked the corner and if I should delay the turn-in to avoid contact. I can assure you that I'm not driving through the marbles.

Is it slower? Yes, but I'm not the one who decided to dive bomb the corner. I'm just the one who decided they I'm not going to brake even more (and let my in-class competition pass me) just because some guy with more HP decided to dive bomb.

I agree with you that this doesn't make a whole lot of sense in a DE context. At a DE, the guys I could easily pass in the middle of a turn are precisely the ones I would be afraid to pass in the middle of a turn.

Crazy Canuck

Red was fun for my one and only run on Sunday afternoon.

To be honest, open passing rules could be applied to black with little issue. Everyone in the group drives very well.

cr207

many black drivers are in black because they don't want to be instructors or instruct for other clubs but have not gone through PCA certification. So yes I think black should have open passing too.

M758

The place it really helps is when two cars meet in corner and one has lots of grip and the other does not. This allows the car with grip to just "drive around" the other one. No need to slow down the car with grip and wait for the next passing zone.

This is really important when you have low hp car with grip catching big hp car with little grip. The low hp car can just slice by in the corners or in twisty section of track and then get back to spead rather than being "stuck" for 2/3 of a lap and then having to rely on the hp car to lift on the straights.

BTW... I have been passed many times in corners and I NEVER SLOWED down. The passing car may have slowed, but he did so alot less than if he stayed behind me the entire way. The corner pictured in my sig is one where I have been passed by faster cars. Stay to the inside and I am flat in 3rd gear. A faster car with more grip will just drive around the outside of me. Sure they are slower than if they were on line, but by drivng around me are going faster than they would behind me. I don't slow down at all and just am aware they are there and make sure they have room.

Now if you are comparing two cars with similar hp and similar grip the passing in a corner is not a big advantage unless one driver is very much slower in that corner. In the sig picture be low the 3 944 spec cars cannot pass there with either 1 car being very slow off the pace or both cars being off a bit slow both down. However we all have the same hp and same grip.

jaje

Starting with the instructor class is a good idea but I also think Advanced and Intermediate this should also be added down the line. But before each region institutes this I would highly suggest a format NASA also uses before allowing passing in the corners. NASA with their Int & Adv groups that do allow passing in corners would have a prior session where students would for 10 mins drive side by side with another car in the same group only going at 50% speed around the track - always side by side in every corner and every straight. The next 10 mins of that session they switch to get the feel of what it is like passing in a corner and understanding of what happens when you get off the preferred line. This honestly makes them more familiar with being on parts of the track they may have never driven on - may help with the understanding that you need to slow down - often significantly. I would not just allow it without this training session to help students gain this understanding. I would even suggest this even with Instructors as many have never raced w2w or passed in a corner.