PCA expanded Passing rules
08-10-2009, 11:22 PM
#1
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PCA expanded Passing rules
Our region just received the email regarding approval regarding the expanded passing rule. We are aiming to try it in two weeks. would be interested in comments suggestions from any region that has recently went from the traditional passing rules to the the new rule. ?
see rule below:
The Expanded Passing experiment is complete and the PCA Executive Council has approved the program for use at Regional DE events with the following rules:
1. The Expanded Passing will be run ONLY in the Instructor Run Group.
2. The Expanded Passing will include all portions of the track including turns WITH A HAND SIGNAL initiating the pass.
3. When entering a turn with another car...NO ONE OWNS THE TURN…Each driver is entitled to 50% of the track...as if there was a white line through the center of the turn.
4. No more than two cars side by side in the turn.
5. The only passengers, at this time, are other Instructors or designated Coaches.
6. This program is self policed and any passing done without a signal or over aggressive driving may result in exclusion from the program or may be dealt with as decided by Regional DE management.
7. All members of the designated run group must participate in expanded passing. Any Instructor who does not care to participate must move to another run group.
see rule below:
The Expanded Passing experiment is complete and the PCA Executive Council has approved the program for use at Regional DE events with the following rules:
1. The Expanded Passing will be run ONLY in the Instructor Run Group.
2. The Expanded Passing will include all portions of the track including turns WITH A HAND SIGNAL initiating the pass.
3. When entering a turn with another car...NO ONE OWNS THE TURN…Each driver is entitled to 50% of the track...as if there was a white line through the center of the turn.
4. No more than two cars side by side in the turn.
5. The only passengers, at this time, are other Instructors or designated Coaches.
6. This program is self policed and any passing done without a signal or over aggressive driving may result in exclusion from the program or may be dealt with as decided by Regional DE management.
7. All members of the designated run group must participate in expanded passing. Any Instructor who does not care to participate must move to another run group.
08-11-2009, 01:30 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
Works fine.
Make sure that all your affected drivers attend a special drivers meeting regarding the rules. In our region, we did a 2 by 2 exercise for a couple laps to get the hang of two wide passing, which was well received.
Make sure that all your affected drivers attend a special drivers meeting regarding the rules. In our region, we did a 2 by 2 exercise for a couple laps to get the hang of two wide passing, which was well received.
08-11-2009, 08:43 AM
#3
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Hey;
I and my Co-Chief Instructor Van Svenson from Hudson Champlain Region recently ran the 2x2 drill for our intermediate (with an instructor) as well as advanced groups at a recent DE at the Glen (I did not drive). I subsequently ran the drill as a driver with NNJR at Mosport, and we then "progressed" to Extended Passing thereafter. The 2x drill is a prerequisite session for all groups looking to institute "Extended Passing."
When you have your meetings to discuss the exercise, it is imperative that you explain to people HOW TO DO the exercise correctly. If you do not, you will find that you have a fair number of people that will not figure it out, or struggle to get it right, and thus will not derive maximum benefit. It will be their partner that suffers if they don't perform well.
The biggest issue with the drill is that each driver has to stay side by side. Many of our intermediate drivers had a hard time with this. We had a few drivers that stayed in their partner's blind spot much of the time. Of course this is good in the sense that it makes the other driver really work to keep track of their partner, but it is not how it should be done, and needs to be mentioned. Both cars need to stay beside each other. You should also encourage your pairs to get as close to each other as they can manage. This takes some time to become comfortable with, which is why I feel you need to run the exercise for a whole session. Since this is an unatural siutation for a DE (and even for a race, to some extent), it DOES take some thought and effort if you are not familiar with it.
The only other issue for me was running the drill long enough. At our DE, we ran it for 15 minutes of a 30 minute session. With NNJR we only ran it for 2 laps. We had a lot of good feedback from our drivers at our Glen event. I actually had a great time riding with an intermediate driver as an observer. He admitted to being a bit dubious about the whole thing, but really enjoying it in the end. Some people saw little benefit in it. Oddly enough, these were instructors, and even Club Racers. I'm not sure I understand that. By and large, most of the drivers enjoyed the exercise, even though they found it variously difficult and even a bit intimidating. PERFECT!! That's the idea! Jump out of your rut, stretch you limits, and learn something new!
You will find varying benefit to these exercises, and the extended passing rules, depending on the group you run with. We found very good value in it for our DE, but as a participant with NNJR it was kind of a yawn. It really depends on the skill level of your group. If you have good drivers who are not that agressive in the turns - or have much slower cars - in your instructor group, you may find benefit to having the Extended Passing, IF these drivers offer the benefits to their faster group mates. Frankly, for myself, I see only modest use for it. There are certain times where the slower car can indeed let faster traffic through, and it does really depend on the track and the type of corners, but in truth it is not that big of a deal. The groups I run with have been doing 98% of this for a long time, so it is not really that big of a deal.
I and my Co-Chief Instructor Van Svenson from Hudson Champlain Region recently ran the 2x2 drill for our intermediate (with an instructor) as well as advanced groups at a recent DE at the Glen (I did not drive). I subsequently ran the drill as a driver with NNJR at Mosport, and we then "progressed" to Extended Passing thereafter. The 2x drill is a prerequisite session for all groups looking to institute "Extended Passing."
When you have your meetings to discuss the exercise, it is imperative that you explain to people HOW TO DO the exercise correctly. If you do not, you will find that you have a fair number of people that will not figure it out, or struggle to get it right, and thus will not derive maximum benefit. It will be their partner that suffers if they don't perform well.
The biggest issue with the drill is that each driver has to stay side by side. Many of our intermediate drivers had a hard time with this. We had a few drivers that stayed in their partner's blind spot much of the time. Of course this is good in the sense that it makes the other driver really work to keep track of their partner, but it is not how it should be done, and needs to be mentioned. Both cars need to stay beside each other. You should also encourage your pairs to get as close to each other as they can manage. This takes some time to become comfortable with, which is why I feel you need to run the exercise for a whole session. Since this is an unatural siutation for a DE (and even for a race, to some extent), it DOES take some thought and effort if you are not familiar with it.
The only other issue for me was running the drill long enough. At our DE, we ran it for 15 minutes of a 30 minute session. With NNJR we only ran it for 2 laps. We had a lot of good feedback from our drivers at our Glen event. I actually had a great time riding with an intermediate driver as an observer. He admitted to being a bit dubious about the whole thing, but really enjoying it in the end. Some people saw little benefit in it. Oddly enough, these were instructors, and even Club Racers. I'm not sure I understand that. By and large, most of the drivers enjoyed the exercise, even though they found it variously difficult and even a bit intimidating. PERFECT!! That's the idea! Jump out of your rut, stretch you limits, and learn something new!
You will find varying benefit to these exercises, and the extended passing rules, depending on the group you run with. We found very good value in it for our DE, but as a participant with NNJR it was kind of a yawn. It really depends on the skill level of your group. If you have good drivers who are not that agressive in the turns - or have much slower cars - in your instructor group, you may find benefit to having the Extended Passing, IF these drivers offer the benefits to their faster group mates. Frankly, for myself, I see only modest use for it. There are certain times where the slower car can indeed let faster traffic through, and it does really depend on the track and the type of corners, but in truth it is not that big of a deal. The groups I run with have been doing 98% of this for a long time, so it is not really that big of a deal.
08-11-2009, 09:41 AM
#4
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Works great everywhere I have seen it use, with a variety of groups, including PCA down here. Frankly, if instructors cannot handle passing anywhere with a point, they should not be instructing. And, in actuality, most points were still given on straights...
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08-11-2009, 09:50 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
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Looks like almost a copy of the Rennsport region current red group practice.
I am not sure if RSR instructors do much side by side in the corner (but who knows, what happens in red stays in red
) but everything else is the same.
I am not sure if RSR instructors do much side by side in the corner (but who knows, what happens in red stays in red
) but everything else is the same.
08-11-2009, 09:52 AM
#6
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Not sure I understand the benefit. Passing in the corner slows both cars down.
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08-11-2009, 10:04 AM
#8
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Much overdue. Chin runs their events this way and it makes for a much more fun event. Not only do you tend to get more consistent lap times, but it is a lot of fun driving your car off line. In the normal PCA environment, you only drive "the line". With the full track point by, you have to adapt to differing lines, which makes it more fun and challenging.
I'm hoping the Peachstate regions adopts this structure. Drivers are finding other sponsors (Chin, etc.) for this reason.
I'm hoping the Peachstate regions adopts this structure. Drivers are finding other sponsors (Chin, etc.) for this reason.
08-11-2009, 10:05 AM
#9
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08-11-2009, 10:10 AM
#10
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OK, but I'd rather slingshot the slower car on the exit
08-11-2009, 10:15 AM
#11
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I'm glad they decided to allow this - and in the instructor's group only. We tend to have several instructors that do not want to pass anywhere with a point, and we place them happily in the advanced group. We've also had advance drivers that are use to passing anywhere with a point, that we've made them our "Hot Pink" group and throw them in with the red.
We've been doing it a while -- and it works GREAT. Lots of happy folks by the end of their session.
We've been doing it a while -- and it works GREAT. Lots of happy folks by the end of their session.
08-11-2009, 10:25 AM
#13
The Penguin King
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... And it helps prepare people for racing by learning how to deal with a car next to you. ...And it helps people learn how to run off line. ...And it helps smooth traffic out. When I've run with open passing, there have been no trains at all. Someday, maybe the PCA will allow this for non-instructors. Oh, and +1 on Dave's comment about instructors by definition needing to be able to handle this.
08-11-2009, 10:41 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
Extended Passing Rule
We did the test of this at VIR with our First Settlers Region in May. It went very well and I am glad to see that PCA has approved this on a National level.
I have one question concerning check rides where an Instructor may take his student for a ride in the Instructor's car. For example, if an Instructor has a Green student, then he would only be allowed to take his student out in Blue according to some regions. Other regions suggest taking the student in either Black or Red based on where that Instructor is running.
These new Extended Passing Rules would clearly prohibit a Student in the Red run group. Personally I think the Green to Blue example makes the most sense. As long as the Instructor backs down and does not terrorize anyone in Blue, the student will learn from the Instructor and still be exposed to a moderate driving experience.
I have one question concerning check rides where an Instructor may take his student for a ride in the Instructor's car. For example, if an Instructor has a Green student, then he would only be allowed to take his student out in Blue according to some regions. Other regions suggest taking the student in either Black or Red based on where that Instructor is running.
These new Extended Passing Rules would clearly prohibit a Student in the Red run group. Personally I think the Green to Blue example makes the most sense. As long as the Instructor backs down and does not terrorize anyone in Blue, the student will learn from the Instructor and still be exposed to a moderate driving experience.