Veloce Raptor

Those of us w/o 415 hp don't often have that luxury...





Professional Racing and Driving Coach

M758

passing in corners should be no big deal for an instructor. You are not fighting for position only letting another car through. Yes most passing will still happen on the straights, but in certain corners a pass is pretty easy and safe if both cars plan for it.

Very good move in my mind. The next step would be no point needed on the straights. Point bys required in corners. This way a fast car can just blast by where it is easy not waiting for a "signal". Obviously cooperation is needed in corners so that is where the point comes in. Now for those that thing no point is a free for all. I the race group I still give point bys to faster cars. I believe it helps them understand I see them and will not have an issue with them passing me.

amaist

This would work only when the faster car has much more horsepower than the slower car. In this case I absolutely agree.

Sometimes a car with similar or lower hp will be faster. Even in the instructor group and it doesn't mean that the slower instructor is a worse driver. He/she could be on street rubber while the fast car is on slicks. Definitely need cooperation for that.
If I catch a GT2 with a GT3 I need them to back off on the straight or I will not see them until the next corner.

M758

This is where passing in corners is great. GT2 on streets is slow in the corners so you can just tuck in and pass when he cooperates. Also just because you don't need a point on the straights does not mean you can't give one.

The real issue can be GT2 comes off a turn slow due to street tires. You come off that turn hot due to R-tires and some nice driving. So you get a "run" on the GT2. So despite the HP differece with no point by you can just pull up along side. Now if this a long straight the GT2 will probably pull you, but on medium straight then can still probably take them. However passing in corners is key for lower hp/better grip cars since it makes it so much easier to dive deep under brakes and let the steet tire car give some room. Both cars enter the turn side by side and the high grip car pulls out first.

race911

Just came from a BMWCCA DE last weekend where they've run "pass anywhere w/ point" in the A and B groups for 2 years now. Zero problems. (No instructor group this weekend as there was a club race mixed in, plus the A/B was combined.)

As was stated by many, most of the passes are on the straights or under braking. Hardly any are when in corners.

We had also, on Friday, come off of a private day of full open track, no run sessions. Still strive to give a point as a courtesy. Probably 1/4 of the 60 entries had never run an open track before (though this was an invite only, highly experienced list). Zero problems, as is the case with all of these days. A couple of the new guys I talked to were kind of wondering what the fuss is all about. There was probably a 30 sec/lap spread from when I took the Radical out, to lightly prepped but expertly driven 318 or 2002.

amaist

I am all for passing in the corners when the drivers are competent enough for that.

Red group should definitely be capable of that. Possibly black(or whatever the top student group is called), too.

aeshultz

Well, I'm one of the guys who will get to do this next week - and I love it! Even though I'm the one being passed most often, it will help keep it interesting now that I'm no longer racing.
And believe me, I'm used to being passed in corners!
As was mentioned - a new wrinkle, get out of the rut.

RedlineMan

Education!

Don't we all want better drivers? Everyone in every group wants better drivers to drive with. Hopefully for we in Red, when these people who were so exposed move up, they will actually be READY! We did the Leap Frog drill the 2nd day. Most of them had a great time. The only people that didn't, didn't care for the 2x drill. Too hard. Waaaa. They need it more!

RedlineMan

Hmmmm...

Bide your time, Mon Ami. Your red group is one of the ones I mentioned as being... ahead of the curve, as it were.

todinlaw

Thanks guys for the comments and pointers. This is long overdue. I see it as way to keep instructors, our most valuable resource happy and fresh. I have also been critical of PCA for not preparing its ranks for club race, if you wanted to get to racing skill you had to go elsewhere, now you can at least start to figure out how to work traffic. Under the old rules, we all took late passes and we figured out how to take it through the corner safley. I just think this will make us better at it and a bit more pre planed and prepared.

Bob Rouleau

Hey John, I hope that was a compliment!

Instructors are perfectly capable of doing the extended passing thing and many have been doing it for years

One thing would make me hesitate to share a corner though, if the other guy has a full containment seat and or the older HANS without the sliding tether, his blind spot to the side is huge which makes a pass in certain (but not all) corners a little less secure.

Best,

aj986s

Well put.....

Bob Rouleau

It isn't the horsepower, it's the torque

Veloce Raptor

A very good point...which is why it makes sense to evaluate who you are rapidly closing on before trying to "urge" them to give a passing signal. And you're right, it IS the torque.





Professional Racing and Driving Coach

dave morris

Then what do you mean by intermediate? I'm familiar w/ the Green, Blue, White, Black and Red designations. Where does your intermediate classification fit in?