ltc

Thanks. I was under the impression that the shell design was basically identical but the testing/certification was the major difference.
I will have to get the 8860 spec and read it this weekend.

ltc

I would imagine there would be little permanent deformation of the foam post impact.
Interesting design constraint...provide adequate padding density/energy dissipation in a very confined volume while simultaneously trying to balance overall weight and aerodynamics (Adrian Newey prefers his drivers to wear a specific brand (shape) of helmet for aero reasons....can't remember which one but IIRC, Webber wasn't too happy with switching).
Fascinating stuff.

ew928

The snell rated bicycle helmets use crushable single use foam.
The foam lining in the shell is like the foam used to cushion the corner of electronics.
Think the white foam crushes to absorb the impact.
Gel foam is the only thing I think that can deform to absorb the impact load and then return to original shape. (like the gel inserts for shoes)

multi21

I found an online retainer of the Arai 8860 for about $6500.

Did you sell your son's Leatt Brace?

APKhaos

A couple of us playing doctor here:

The large transverse sutures are backup - like strips of race tape to protect against accidental knocks or bumps until the underlying repair heals. The real closure work is below the skin, and not visible. Chaces are that the final skin closure is actually glued to minimise scarring.

Its hard to imagine a workable helmet design that would protect against the kind of impact that FM encountered. The rough energy calculation [800gm at 200KPH = around 20,000 joules, which is in the same range as an AK47 round] tells the tale. Its going to be hard to design a usable helmet at reasonable weight that will withstand this kind of impact to the eye port. If anything, FM was extremely lucky that the impact was not a few cm lower. His helmet actually worked very well given the force and location of the impact.

A.Wayne

What about getting Brawn to bolt their crap together better .. A penalty would work for starters and a complete examination of there setup by the FIA for safety reason should be the least ..

ltc

IIRC, after the incident and during the beginning of Q3, Button's car was in the garage (no cameras since the rear cover was removed) while Ross and crew examined the car.
AFAIK, it is the team's responsibility to ensure that the car is 'safe' before they allow it onto the track, not the FIA's job.
However, it is within the FIA's discretion (Charlie and crew) to remove a car from competition at any time if they feel as though the car is unsafe to proceed.

Circuit Motorsports

The real highend GP6 that is due to be released soon and is 8860 certified is about 4500.

The Bell Carbon Fiber equivalent is about 3500.

Soon we'll see a lot more helmets have the certification and prices will slowly drop down out of the stratosphere.

rusnak

If you go back to the original post (click the link) you can see that the cut is actually above the eyebrow. CMoss may have a point. It's weird though, you'd think that the foam would have absorbed more of the force, and that there would be a bad bruise at worst.

rusnak

McLaren would have been banned for 100 races under the old Mosely regime.

RSA333

Maybe because I work PT in a large trauma ER, and a know great deal about traumatic brain injury (TBI) - as someone said above, there is no helmet or system that I can imagine that can protect against blunt trauma to the brain. If the eye and orbit are okay, I am still concerned about emergent TBI for Massa - there is no information about this, and certainly the early CT scans are not definative. Although he is one of my favorite drivers, I don't think he should race in F1 again (he could go to NASCAR)...

Flying Finn

In the end it all comes down to the test ban (which idiotic but that's for anothet thread).
There's no way any of the teams know for sure what part will fell off, crack, have a stress fracture etc. unless they test the car.

After this season ends, teams are banned to do ANY testing until February when there will be 15 days of testing in 4 test sessions where all the teams will attend (new team will get extra 3 days). After that, all the testing, as this season, is done on few hours in Fridays.

FIA is doing a big disservice to safety with the test ban.

A.Wayne

Considering the injuries to Massa and not knowing what really happened with Rubin's car, the Brawn's should have been pulled from qualifying for a proper examination . To allow Bidniz as usual after the incident is the most flagrant disregard to safety shown by the FIA in a long time ..

Massa was extremely fortunate , if he had not pulled thru , heads would be rolling and fingers would be pointing over this ...

ltc

Perhaps, but is IS the team's responsiblity, unless the FIA has reason to believe the team is in error (see Renault at the last GP...tire penalty).

I don't know if the FIA will publish the findings on how/why the heave spring fell off the car (human and/or mechanical reasons) directly, although we might find out indirectly if there is a technical update for something like retaining straps on springs, etc (similar to front wheel straps)

1AS

Massa suffered a crush injury of his left orbit. As a non-surgeon physician, this is how it seems to me.
The eye appears to be sunken, as it most likely is. He may require additional surgery in the future to avoid a permanent disfigurement, but many months will pass before that decision is made. With the severity of his head injury, it will be extremely lucky if he ever qualifies for an F1 race again. Vision, double vision, depth perception, balance, and coordination will all be impacted. If i recall correctly, Chrstiano Dematto suffered a closed head injury at Road America. I do not believe he ever regained his previous skill level. He was in a coma longer, but didn't have the crush injury. AS