Brake Fluid Stats
05-25-2009, 01:35 PM
#16
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05-25-2009, 02:18 PM
#17
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You guys might need that $$$ stuff for your high hp, heavy turtles.
For the 944 spec/Cup cars, ATE works great at a small fraction of the cost of SRF, and is readily available everywhere. We don't have the absolute speed nor do we use the brakes as much and never get to boiling stage. I bleed down with a new can every 2 race weekends. Pretty much everyone I've seen in 44's seem to be running it. Good performance/cost ratio.
FWIW, the chart lists different wet temps ATE blue and gold, at least in Farenheit, but the same temps in Celsius. AFAIK, they have the same performance characteristics, the blue is just dyed.
For the 944 spec/Cup cars, ATE works great at a small fraction of the cost of SRF, and is readily available everywhere. We don't have the absolute speed nor do we use the brakes as much and never get to boiling stage. I bleed down with a new can every 2 race weekends. Pretty much everyone I've seen in 44's seem to be running it. Good performance/cost ratio.
FWIW, the chart lists different wet temps ATE blue and gold, at least in Farenheit, but the same temps in Celsius. AFAIK, they have the same performance characteristics, the blue is just dyed.
05-25-2009, 02:48 PM
#19
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Like Charlie said, SRF FTW.
05-25-2009, 03:01 PM
#20
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Since I switched to Endless RF-650, I haven't had a problem. http://endlessusa.com/product.php?c=chemical&p=36 But then again, I was probably braking too much before the switch. 
05-25-2009, 04:05 PM
#22
I have used both Motul 600 and Castrol SRF. It is impossible to overheat the SRF. You will overheat your pads before the brake fluid. The only problem with SRF is that it is very corrosive and will begin to eat away at your brake lines faster than other fluids.
The Motul 600 was a great fluid. As long as you bled a bottle after every 3 or 4 track days (depending on driving conditions), you should be fine. In theory you should be bleeding the SRF fluid as well even though its not overheating to keep the fluids fresh. Heat cycles will slowly destroy fluids.
The price of SRF is a downer. You can buy twice the Motul 600 for the same price.
I have heard the Brembo 600 is good. ATE Super Blue is junk.
The Motul 600 was a great fluid. As long as you bled a bottle after every 3 or 4 track days (depending on driving conditions), you should be fine. In theory you should be bleeding the SRF fluid as well even though its not overheating to keep the fluids fresh. Heat cycles will slowly destroy fluids.
The price of SRF is a downer. You can buy twice the Motul 600 for the same price.
I have heard the Brembo 600 is good. ATE Super Blue is junk.
05-25-2009, 04:19 PM
#23
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05-25-2009, 04:34 PM
#24
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I'm feelin' like a cheap bastard now for using Super Blue/Amber...and I thought I was treating my car to the good stuff.
05-25-2009, 05:59 PM
#25
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I don't mean to downplay your experience Larry. It's just that using Castrol SRF does indeed make a difference for my car. Believe me I would rather not spend $70 a liter on brake fluid, and I "got by" with Motul for several years before the other guys I race with convinced me to give SRF a try. After using it for three seasons, It's worth the money - even with the difference in price I spend less $ on brake fluid using SRF since I don't have to bleed as often.
I don't disagree that it may be overkill for many cars.
Having spent a ****-ton of time on the brakes in my 911SC over the last 10 years, I'm quite positive there is nothing left that can be done to improve cooling for the stock calipers and rotors beyond what I have done for my D class car (blockoff plates, ducts/hose directly to the front bumper, titanium backing plates, etc etc.). I can tell you that everyone in my car/class has the same issues.
Maybe if we could add electric fans in the lines... I looked into that at one time.
We do what we can to deal with the stock brakes - drive around the brake limitations, keep the brake system in top condition, bleed frequently, use the best fluid available and keep a supply of caliper rebuild kits on hand.
Cheers,
Jeff
I don't disagree that it may be overkill for many cars.
Having spent a ****-ton of time on the brakes in my 911SC over the last 10 years, I'm quite positive there is nothing left that can be done to improve cooling for the stock calipers and rotors beyond what I have done for my D class car (blockoff plates, ducts/hose directly to the front bumper, titanium backing plates, etc etc.). I can tell you that everyone in my car/class has the same issues.
Maybe if we could add electric fans in the lines... I looked into that at one time.
We do what we can to deal with the stock brakes - drive around the brake limitations, keep the brake system in top condition, bleed frequently, use the best fluid available and keep a supply of caliper rebuild kits on hand.
Cheers,
Jeff
sorry).About getting moisture in the system I read in this article (link) the following, which I have heard before:
Brake fluid is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture, and this can be a major problem for the braking system. The moisture may enter the system through the brake hoses, seals, master cylinder cover, etc. It is imperative that you keep the brake fluid container tightly sealed when not in use, as the fluid can become contaminated on the shelf. The braking system can absorb 2% of its volume in moisture in 12 months.
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Larry Herman
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
05-25-2009, 06:19 PM
#26
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You guys might need that $$$ stuff for your high hp, heavy turtles.
For the 944 spec/Cup cars, ATE works great at a small fraction of the cost of SRF, and is readily available everywhere. We don't have the absolute speed nor do we use the brakes as much and never get to boiling stage. I bleed down with a new can every 2 race weekends. Pretty much everyone I've seen in 44's seem to be running it. Good performance/cost ratio.
FWIW, the chart lists different wet temps ATE blue and gold, at least in Farenheit, but the same temps in Celsius. AFAIK, they have the same performance characteristics, the blue is just dyed.
For the 944 spec/Cup cars, ATE works great at a small fraction of the cost of SRF, and is readily available everywhere. We don't have the absolute speed nor do we use the brakes as much and never get to boiling stage. I bleed down with a new can every 2 race weekends. Pretty much everyone I've seen in 44's seem to be running it. Good performance/cost ratio.
FWIW, the chart lists different wet temps ATE blue and gold, at least in Farenheit, but the same temps in Celsius. AFAIK, they have the same performance characteristics, the blue is just dyed.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but brake fluid either boils or it doesn't; and if it doesn't it works as well as anything out there. I too have used nothing but ATE (DE's only, but I've done 30 minute stints in 95 degree heat) and it's never failed me. I'm on stock everything (altho I have 968 brake cooling scoops). If the price were even in the same ballpark, I might go upscale; but we're talking serious money.
05-25-2009, 06:49 PM
#27
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[QUOTE=Larry Herman;6595113]I d run the Pentosin Racing Fluid and have had no probems at all with it in many cars including an EVO 8 which has insufficient brakes. I like it better than ATE because it has a lower viscosity and gives a harder pedal (and it has better specs sorry).
At $16 per liter, Pentosin Racing is at a price point which encourages frequent brake flush. And it gives me a pedal with about 1" free play, then hard/firm over Pagid orange. Nice combo on a stock braked Carrera.
sorry).At $16 per liter, Pentosin Racing is at a price point which encourages frequent brake flush. And it gives me a pedal with about 1" free play, then hard/firm over Pagid orange. Nice combo on a stock braked Carrera.
05-25-2009, 08:13 PM
#29
Race Director
I had some odd brake vibrations when my fluid got OLD....a wicked shimmy in all through the car..it sucked....it was so bad I thought the rotors were badly warped....turns out they were fine, well within spec so we put in some Motul 660 and every thing is FINE...even got the pedal much higher and more firm....brakes are sweet now!!
05-25-2009, 08:48 PM
#30
I like the cost effectiveness of the motul 660 product. It comes in smaller bottles so it stays sealed longer and you can flush more often at less cost.
you need to flush before a race anyway might as well save a bit
you need to flush before a race anyway might as well save a bit