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Old 05-25-2009, 01:35 PM
  #16  
ltc
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Originally Posted by DrJupeman
But this is a religious argument. We might as well start talking motor oils...
Don't forget tow vehicles and H&N restraints...
Old 05-25-2009, 02:18 PM
  #17  
schwank
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You guys might need that $$$ stuff for your high hp, heavy turtles.

For the 944 spec/Cup cars, ATE works great at a small fraction of the cost of SRF, and is readily available everywhere. We don't have the absolute speed nor do we use the brakes as much and never get to boiling stage. I bleed down with a new can every 2 race weekends. Pretty much everyone I've seen in 44's seem to be running it. Good performance/cost ratio.

FWIW, the chart lists different wet temps ATE blue and gold, at least in Farenheit, but the same temps in Celsius. AFAIK, they have the same performance characteristics, the blue is just dyed.
Old 05-25-2009, 02:30 PM
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I've used ATE and Valvoline SynPro. The Pentosin Racing is better than both. The other highly regarded is Ford Heavy Duty. Pentosin Racing is DOT 4, not DOT 5.1.
Old 05-25-2009, 02:48 PM
  #19  
mglobe
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Originally Posted by jaydubya
My personal theory is that once you put fluid in your system you're dealing with the wet boiling point from that point on due to contaminants (no matter how clean you think your lines are).
I agree. Also, as soon as you open the bottle, I suspect that the fluid is absorbing moisture from the air. I honestly wish there were a way to tap into a bottle of fluid and connect it to the brake system without exposing it to the atmosphere at all. Then you might have a chance (given enough of a flush) of dealing with a true dry fluid.

Like Charlie said, SRF FTW.
Old 05-25-2009, 03:01 PM
  #20  
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Since I switched to Endless RF-650, I haven't had a problem. http://endlessusa.com/product.php?c=chemical&p=36 But then again, I was probably braking too much before the switch.
Old 05-25-2009, 03:33 PM
  #21  
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std Brembo seals are good for 415F.
Old 05-25-2009, 04:05 PM
  #22  
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I have used both Motul 600 and Castrol SRF. It is impossible to overheat the SRF. You will overheat your pads before the brake fluid. The only problem with SRF is that it is very corrosive and will begin to eat away at your brake lines faster than other fluids.

The Motul 600 was a great fluid. As long as you bled a bottle after every 3 or 4 track days (depending on driving conditions), you should be fine. In theory you should be bleeding the SRF fluid as well even though its not overheating to keep the fluids fresh. Heat cycles will slowly destroy fluids.

The price of SRF is a downer. You can buy twice the Motul 600 for the same price.

I have heard the Brembo 600 is good. ATE Super Blue is junk.
Old 05-25-2009, 04:19 PM
  #23  
Circuit Motorsports
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Originally Posted by ltc
Don't forget tow vehicles and H&N restraints...
...but what about brake fluid for tow vehicles.
Old 05-25-2009, 04:34 PM
  #24  
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I'm feelin' like a cheap bastard now for using Super Blue/Amber...and I thought I was treating my car to the good stuff.
Old 05-25-2009, 05:59 PM
  #25  
Larry Herman
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Originally Posted by jaydubya
I don't mean to downplay your experience Larry. It's just that using Castrol SRF does indeed make a difference for my car. Believe me I would rather not spend $70 a liter on brake fluid, and I "got by" with Motul for several years before the other guys I race with convinced me to give SRF a try. After using it for three seasons, It's worth the money - even with the difference in price I spend less $ on brake fluid using SRF since I don't have to bleed as often.

I don't disagree that it may be overkill for many cars.

Having spent a ****-ton of time on the brakes in my 911SC over the last 10 years, I'm quite positive there is nothing left that can be done to improve cooling for the stock calipers and rotors beyond what I have done for my D class car (blockoff plates, ducts/hose directly to the front bumper, titanium backing plates, etc etc.). I can tell you that everyone in my car/class has the same issues.

Maybe if we could add electric fans in the lines... I looked into that at one time.

We do what we can to deal with the stock brakes - drive around the brake limitations, keep the brake system in top condition, bleed frequently, use the best fluid available and keep a supply of caliper rebuild kits on hand.

Cheers,

Jeff
I don't disagree with you here Jeff, as we have established that in an SC/Carrera with stock brakes, we are at or beyond the thermal limits of the braking system. Blame it on the new grippier pads, or stickier tires or whatever, in these cars we have to rebuild the calipers often because the excessive heat destroysd the seals. If you have the option in choosing your brakes, you should be nowhere near that limit, and so having the ultimate in dry boiling point fluid should not be of paramount importance. I run the Pentosin Racing Fluid and have had no probems at all with it in many cars including an EVO 8 which has insufficient brakes. I like it better than ATE because it has a lower viscosity and gives a harder pedal (and it has better specs sorry).


About getting moisture in the system I read in this article (link) the following, which I have heard before:
Brake fluid is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture, and this can be a major problem for the braking system. The moisture may enter the system through the brake hoses, seals, master cylinder cover, etc. It is imperative that you keep the brake fluid container tightly sealed when not in use, as the fluid can become contaminated on the shelf. The braking system can absorb 2% of its volume in moisture in 12 months.
2% moisture absorbtion over the span of a year does not seem excessive, and certainly a proper semi-annual flush should be more than sufficient to keep moisture to a minimum.
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:19 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by schwank
You guys might need that $$$ stuff for your high hp, heavy turtles.

For the 944 spec/Cup cars, ATE works great at a small fraction of the cost of SRF, and is readily available everywhere. We don't have the absolute speed nor do we use the brakes as much and never get to boiling stage. I bleed down with a new can every 2 race weekends. Pretty much everyone I've seen in 44's seem to be running it. Good performance/cost ratio.

FWIW, the chart lists different wet temps ATE blue and gold, at least in Farenheit, but the same temps in Celsius. AFAIK, they have the same performance characteristics, the blue is just dyed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but brake fluid either boils or it doesn't; and if it doesn't it works as well as anything out there. I too have used nothing but ATE (DE's only, but I've done 30 minute stints in 95 degree heat) and it's never failed me. I'm on stock everything (altho I have 968 brake cooling scoops). If the price were even in the same ballpark, I might go upscale; but we're talking serious money.
Old 05-25-2009, 06:49 PM
  #27  
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[QUOTE=Larry Herman;6595113]I d run the Pentosin Racing Fluid and have had no probems at all with it in many cars including an EVO 8 which has insufficient brakes. I like it better than ATE because it has a lower viscosity and gives a harder pedal (and it has better specs sorry).


At $16 per liter, Pentosin Racing is at a price point which encourages frequent brake flush. And it gives me a pedal with about 1" free play, then hard/firm over Pagid orange. Nice combo on a stock braked Carrera.
Old 05-25-2009, 07:38 PM
  #28  
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I think Motul makes sense for the money. I can afford to bleed before every event.
Old 05-25-2009, 08:13 PM
  #29  
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I had some odd brake vibrations when my fluid got OLD....a wicked shimmy in all through the car..it sucked....it was so bad I thought the rotors were badly warped....turns out they were fine, well within spec so we put in some Motul 660 and every thing is FINE...even got the pedal much higher and more firm....brakes are sweet now!!
Old 05-25-2009, 08:48 PM
  #30  
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I like the cost effectiveness of the motul 660 product. It comes in smaller bottles so it stays sealed longer and you can flush more often at less cost.

you need to flush before a race anyway might as well save a bit


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