kurt M

I have spent weekends trying to figure out how to stay away from the point and shoot brick wall. Go out in front and catch him at some point in the run or right behind him and force the issue early on before having to work with traffic. I found that the early harsh hound sets the tone and gets the initial sting for the other drover out of the way. After that passes tend to get easer. Watching point and shoots go sloppy from overdroving the corners with full mirrors is a game into itself.
and at times it takes a fool to drive the slow car in the first place. Trust me on that one.

Tailgating up his pipe is the only way you can get it across to some drivers that you are not back there over and over just for the view. If he has a good gap on you in the entry of the corner he will not think he has to give a pass after the corner when he is faster. He is not looking at you while in the corner so you need to be on/up his *** right at turn out when he checks 6. You are right in that you need time you closing to be dead on him at exit but gaps on entry give them an out. Yes it is poor form for racing and kills your advantage but DE is not racing and unfortunately passes are given not earned.

This is age old, pervasive and not likely to ever go away as it is human nature.

Veloce Raptor

Indeed. We have gotten rid of most of these types in the Instructor groups in Texas...I say most... But we haven't been so lucky in our highest student run group....but it IS getting better.

I must admit I am slightly obnoxious after 4 or 5 corners of being behind asshattery....although on one occasion (with a student in my right seat) I have backed significantly off, because the behavior I observed ahead of me showed an inclination for the drover to go off very soon. And he did, in grand fashion, landing atop a tire wall.







Professional Racing and Driving Coach

Brian P

100% disagree. First off, the OP doesn't even try to get a run on the 951. Instead, the first pass attempt is when he comes through turn 11, and he catches the guy before he even gets to the apex. Note that the 951 actually does give a pass signal the moment he gets onto the front straight, but he takes off. He probably figures that nobody is that silly to catch someone in the turn unless he has monster HP. So... once he takes off, he probably realizes that the car behind him doesn't have a lot of HP, but what's he supposed to do? Turn on the hazards and put the car in park while he waits for the 944 to actually gain some speed?

Now, the OP should have realized that the 951 is actually checking his mirrors, so he'll get a pass signal as soon as they hit a straight. It's his job to conserve his momentum so that both cars can get a good run down the following straight.

Instead, the OP keeps catching the 951 either in the braking zone or well before the apex.

Better passing technique would have prevented all of this. I agree that this isn't racing, but you should still be learning out there, right? At no point in the video do I see any learning going on. In fact, even posting this video shows that no learning occurred.

v-tach

Brian P,

100% disagree - some of us r constantly learning ! There can always be something to learn. This post was not intended to make fun of anyone. I hope u werent offended.

Yes i agree to let off more before a turn in order to gain more momentum for a pass on the straight. Different at the Glen b/c of its size. Easier to do at limerock.

I dont think this sort of thing should happen at an advanced de - anyone doing an advanced de should be beyond this. I think there is a problem when u give someone multiple pass signals and dont let the car pass ! Once u give a pass signal u are obligated to make sure the passing car gets safely around you unless the pass was waved off. At least thats what i was taught !

v-tach

Larry Herman

Exactly right. I have always lectured to my advanced classrooms that passing is a 2 person activity; the one getting the signal, and the one giving it. Both are EQUALLY responsible to make sure a safe pass happens.

Brian P

Not offended at all. In fact, I did this often before I started racing. I'd complain that some people had too much horsepower, and then complain about how those people were such inconsiderate drivers. Granted, my 250 HP Boxster S might as well be a cup car next to your 924S, but it is still pretty overmatched compared to most DE cars nowadays.

Unfortunately for my racing endeavors, DE really gave me some bad habits. I got used to getting on someone's rear bumper, and then I'd get a pass signal and they would lift to help me by. Once I got to racing, I found that I could get on someone's bumper, but I couldn't figure out how to get past that person. Meanwhile, I'd watch other people in my class pass us both with ease.

Finally, after enough pounding my head against a brick wall , I figured out how to leave room between me and the next car so that I could get a good run on them. As you said, this works better at Lime Rock, but the basic idea still applies at any track.

It appears that you have started racing recently, and if it hasn't happened yet, you are going to start catching people that have a faster car and you'll need to figure out how to get around that person. Rather than get frustrated that people at an advanced DE aren't letting you by, use the opportunity to figure out how to get the run on them so that you can make the pass even if they don't lift.

v-tach

short story - Funny how we sometimes go backwards in order to move forward. i started de'ing aprrox 5 yrs ago with a porsche 928 ( now gone ) and then a 996 (which i still have and is for sale ! ). Both fast and great cars. i was at the glen one day at an advanced de with the 928 . I wuz playing around with a prepped 924S but only to find out that he wuz playing with me - i got spanked ! i walked over to him after our session and gave him a hand shake. i told him he wuz awesome and asked if he had a turbo in that thing -- he replied, "no the motor is stock". i was dumb founded...and truly inspired - thus my purchase of a 924s !
cant begin to tell u how much fun im having and how much ive learned so far..

thanks
vito
p.s. hope to meet u all at the glen race and yes then i will be with my homeboys - a coral of 944's ... but never to forget my 911 buddies too !

RedlineMan

A million times right;

Each person has a role in the pass, and it should be considered a collaborative effort. It is encumbent upon the passee to see that the passer gets by within the passing zone. They sometimes need to untie that Vic Elford string from the steering wheel and attach it to their wrist, however (when they signal, they should lift, for those who haven't read the book). If it takes them more than one straight to figure it out, they need some schooling.

For those too stoopid or indifferent, Brian is absolutely right. The art of the setup is one to practice for sure, and do take advantage of these opportunities to do so.

roman944

since I know nothing ... you guys both passed those 911's - and it says "no pass" - what gives? why didn't you just pass him like you did to the 911? is everyone supposed to signal when they let someone pass? what was the signal he was giving you right as the video ended?

thx

v-tach

Pass signals r used in a De to get around another vehicle. The last signal was a pit in signal.

kurt M

"Once u give a pass signal u are obligated to make sure the passing car gets safely around you unless the pass was waved off. At least thats what i was taught ! " 100% +1!

Brian P, I was talking in general and have not looked at the video. After 10 years in a frigging 912 I have seen too much of that kind of stupid stuff as it is

911vet

I think it's incumbent on the DE officials to speak up more than once about this. I wanted to have a conversation with a 944 turbo that refused to give me a pass and just rocketed away at the straights, but was told by the instructors not to. It's probably not practical to confront the other students in most cases. And some are truly oblivious and honestly seem to believe that since they shake me off their bumper on the next straight, I haven't earned a pass.

I've had more than one 4S guy out there thinking they are hot sh** because their high-HP, AWD, traction control, ABS is saving their ***. Only they think it's their driving skill that's great.

How I would love to put these people in my 3.2L, no-ABS, no traction control, RWD car and let them try that crap. On second thought, I don't want them near my car.

BostonDMD

Wow Brian...... and we are both running in the F class?........

aeshultz

And Shannon;
You should see what it looks like from a 130 HP (on a good day) 944 or 924S. You just have to outdrive them.

Brian P

You are running prepared, so you are going to theoretically have less power. I say theoretically, because it seems that most of the cars that are similar to yours easily pull away from me on the straights.