M758

The difficulity with a spec tire for stock classes is mostly the issues of sizes. There is not one MFG that makes all the sizes needed for cars in stock. There is wide range and really Hoosier is one the makes the most. Spec hoosier is not going to help budgets.

Now a spec tire in class where their are few size is great. Sadly I can't see how it will work in all of stock.

Giacomo

Most of the cars in stock classes are in D to H and most of those leading the packs are all on 245/40/18 and 285/30/18 (or something very close). It is not necessary to have all sizes so long as a suitable size for each car is available. After all, everyone will be choosing from the same available sizes. I would be more than willing to make small changes in size if I the tire would get 3X the number of competitive heat cycles.

Brian P

A couple of comments...
1) No adjustable shocks in stock? That rules out even relatively simple shocks like PSS9's. Maybe, you meant no remote reservoir shocks in stock?
2) Let's allow removal of the passenger seat. Personally, I hate the rule that requires it simply because even if we go back to the idea of PCA being the place to race a street legal car, to the best of my knowledge, passenger seats aren't required in street cars.
3) Single piece wheels only? Is there that big of a difference between CCW and BBS that we need to make it a stock only rule?
4) Stock motors for stock... This is where the trouble is going to come in. As many know, there is a "stock" motor and then there is the really stock motor. This is where NASA's HP/weight classification system seems to work well.

Brian P

What's considered a "high number of heat cycles?" I put DrJupeman on my 22 heat cycled hoosiers for the enduro warmup/practice session at Watkins Glen and he was able to bust out a 2:11.9. Methinks that some people are throwing out their Hoosiers before they are truly used up.

Bull

I tried arguing this same point, given my personal experience with Hoosiers, when the Spec 996 guys complained about the spec being R6s, but got nowhere.

Giacomo

But did you run those 23 heat cycle tires in the race?

Rick DeMan

For what its worth, carpet in any race car is a really bad idea. Mandated nomex suits and fire proof seat material to be put on top of flamable carpet...WHO is doing the thinking over there..???

Brian P

No. I have 2 sets. One for racing, and one for practice. After the practice ones are totally used up, the racing ones become the practice set, and then I get a new set.

If something were wrong with the racing wheels, then yes, we would have used the practice set for racing. So, I try to make sure that the practice sets are race worthy.

93 FireHawk 968

Great point regarding carpet and other interior components for the interior yet many "non stock" parts are allowed in other parts of the car. I'd love to know what the rationale is behind this rule.

NJcroc

OK first, We all know we hate the carpets move on to keep this thread productive lol

I think you have some great ideas larry, the onlt problem stems from cars that are already built. A very large part of the newer "stock" class cars have expensive upgrades in them. I also dont know any tire company that makes enough sizes besides hoosier to keep a spec tire working. As far as motors are concerned there is Stock and not stock. there really isnt much gray area, but it seems more and more fall into the second catagory

PedroNole

Larry-

Good ideas. However, I have an idea that I think might be even simpler. Why not create two versions of Weight/Hp (GT and Stock) and add a few more classes of weight/hp but tighten them up.... The tighter the classes, the less someone will feel the need to spend a lot of money to get to the top of the next class....

Also, with two classes, those that don't want to spend a lot of money can stick to the stock (maybe even have modified and prepared point additions) classes and those that want to go crazy can run in GT.

At the end of the day, as long as you have several totally different chassis with different engines running against each other, you end up having to make some wacky rules to get apples and oranges to be the same. Under this scenario, it will NEVER be really fair.

As far as the carpet goes, it's a fire hazard!!!!

bobt993

Peter,

Agreed ^^^^^^^^^^^. Dyno cert and go racing.

Larry Herman

Get off the internet & enjoy Paris.

M758

This brings up an intersting point. Right now stock classes are based partially on stock power levels and stock curb weights. Sure their is now a modifier for driver weight, but the weight a car runs at in stock is not related to its competition and how fast or slow it is in class, but to the weight Porsche published for a stock street car.

I believe that classing in stock should be such that each car's classification weight is based on performance or estimated power/weight relative to its class.

For example the 944 Turbo, 944S2 and 968 all have class weights based on their curb weights. However the 3 cars all have the same tubs and really should have race weights adjusted to even up power/weight ratios and some additional weight factors for things like allow brakes, gearbox and such. This can make all the cars more equal in the same class.

Now if you ditch the need for carpets in the car and shift some cars publish min weights up/down 100 lbs to equal the classes I think you will have better racing and can take the edge off some natural overdogs in the stock classes. So if the numbers show you car is a little down on power for the class take out 100lbs and see how it does. That can really help ensure that more of the cars listed for a class can compete.

Now I believe each car should really have 3 classing options in "stock". Super stock which would be mininal suspension mods, stock with current suspension mods and no carpet, prepared which is current preppared with no carpet. Super Stock should be heavier than stock and stock heavier than prepared.


Anyway I think that would help even up the stock classing they way you create more classing option with out more classes is just do the move up /move down thing with in the current number of classes.

analogmike

This is a problem for the older cars. A pre 1975 911 cannot get more power than stock, they had factory tuned headers and also very efficient intakes/air filters. A later model porsche can put on tuned headers and ALSO remove cats which certainly raises power, as seen on those 911sc's.