Keep this car or buy a track car??
10-18-2010, 04:59 PM
#46
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Well, a long story, but this car has seen 3 complete engine rebuilds, 2 "professional", and then the last one which I did myself. So lots of $ "invested" already. It's a Tip, so the first thing is to convert to a G50, and that will run about 7K give or take.
A lot of wanting to do it "myself" is that I really enjoy working on it, and seeing the results. It will be a project that will certainly span 3 seasons, as the time to prep the car, and train the driver will be considerable. Out here in Northern CA, there are a bunch of great guys in the PCA that are more than willing to help with advice on both issues.
Really just wondering if going down this path it is possible to make a "competitive" car out of a 964 C2?
A lot of wanting to do it "myself" is that I really enjoy working on it, and seeing the results. It will be a project that will certainly span 3 seasons, as the time to prep the car, and train the driver will be considerable. Out here in Northern CA, there are a bunch of great guys in the PCA that are more than willing to help with advice on both issues.
Really just wondering if going down this path it is possible to make a "competitive" car out of a 964 C2?
sell it.
you just added a big cost to already an expensive hobby. really.
and about DIY.
sorry to sound crass. but if you have a real job, DIY is not gonna happen with such a proj. it will take you more than three season, if you want a real race car. i think it takes a pro shop like jerry woods 6 month and they have build dozens of GTL cars already.... and they are no it full time. so 3 seasons for one person doing DIY wont happen, sorry. i have seen a lot of ppl start, then lost momentum.
then even assuming you finish in 3 seasons, the first year out you have to "set it up" or "tune it". a pro built car will take about a season to sort. a DIY car will take at least 2 seasons to sort. i watch it every time i am on track. 1/2 of the grid are "working" on their cars. if you like that, then DIY would be great. but i just want to "race" and then go home.
10-18-2010, 05:02 PM
#47
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10-18-2010, 05:03 PM
#48
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964's run consistently at the top of F class, how much more you need to put into it depends wholly on what parts you have already bought, how suitable they are (compared to your peers), and how solid the car is (especially the motor) overall. One engine rebuild alone can be close to $15K... If your near CT call Dan Jacobs for the "what's the right stuff" conversation, else check with whatever race shop is near you that supports winning 964's. 
there are no F, G, blah blah classes in nor cal.
we have GTA, few GTB cars (like 2), GTC3, 4, 5 (maybe 2 car of each GTc class, and they NEVER all show up at same time, 4 cup car on the grid is a BIG turn out cheered like the 2nd coming), BSR (5-6 cars), spec 911 (10-20 cars), GTL (5-8 cars) and a few other strange cars like mine.
when the national scrutineer came out he noticed it right away and said that we are very different than the rest of the nation (he said it, not i). we have fully gutted to the bone race cars. no stock no prepared classes.
not that this is good or bad, just an observation.
talk to rich walton at jerry woods and tony at tcdesignfab.com
get their take on what to do. advice is free.
10-18-2010, 05:36 PM
#49
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++100000 Sell it, pick the perfect class for you and your region and buy a ready set up car in that class. You will save tons of money over doing it yourself even if you do most of your own labor!!!!!! Plenty tweaking and upkeep to feed your "do it myself" lust"
10-18-2010, 05:42 PM
#50
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oh, it's a tip.
sell it.
you just added a big cost to already an expensive hobby. really.
and about DIY.
sorry to sound crass. but if you have a real job, DIY is not gonna happen with such a proj. it will take you more than three season, if you want a real race car. i think it takes a pro shop like jerry woods 6 month and they have build dozens of GTL cars already.... and they are no it full time. so 3 seasons for one person doing DIY wont happen, sorry. i have seen a lot of ppl start, then lost momentum.
then even assuming you finish in 3 seasons, the first year out you have to "set it up" or "tune it". a pro built car will take about a season to sort. a DIY car will take at least 2 seasons to sort. i watch it every time i am on track. 1/2 of the grid are "working" on their cars. if you like that, then DIY would be great. but i just want to "race" and then go home.
sell it.
you just added a big cost to already an expensive hobby. really.
and about DIY.
sorry to sound crass. but if you have a real job, DIY is not gonna happen with such a proj. it will take you more than three season, if you want a real race car. i think it takes a pro shop like jerry woods 6 month and they have build dozens of GTL cars already.... and they are no it full time. so 3 seasons for one person doing DIY wont happen, sorry. i have seen a lot of ppl start, then lost momentum.
then even assuming you finish in 3 seasons, the first year out you have to "set it up" or "tune it". a pro built car will take about a season to sort. a DIY car will take at least 2 seasons to sort. i watch it every time i am on track. 1/2 of the grid are "working" on their cars. if you like that, then DIY would be great. but i just want to "race" and then go home.
Mooty, I really appreciate the advice, and I am interested in "the facts" as they are.
I am very familiar with Jerry Woods Enterprises, they did a bunch of prep work on my engine, and I took their rebuilding class.
I saw Tims' Turtle from the initial 964 to it's current incarnation, and I think that the tub is pretty much all that remains of the original 964.
Selling mine is a complete loss at this point, as it has over 180K miles, and is not really drivable on the street comfortably.
I'm not really a podium type of guy, I just like getting out on the track and driving with others. The GGR PCA days have been very fun for me, and I have been to a number of the club races, and they are very different than those described back east on this board. I'll check out POC and see what they are about.
One of my biggest problems is that I'm an engineer, structural/aerospace, and I just love to tinker with things, and the car is just my latest endeavor. It's a disease.
And I'm a consultant, so I don't think that I've got a "real job", more of a hobby that I get paid for.
10-18-2010, 05:52 PM
#51
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Now that I have all the facts and read where you are (my oversight) I agree with Mooty that you need to find out what is being raced and what you want to do. Sounds like SpBox is getting popular and Spec911 is doing well. Talk to your peers at the track, here, and of course Jerry Woods, then pick a car to race. Doesn't sound like, regardless of money spent, your car will fall into a populated race group and racing by yourself is a DE with coffee cup trophies...
10-18-2010, 06:11 PM
#52
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i used to care a lot about classes.
there are no F, G, blah blah classes in nor cal.
we have GTA, few GTB cars (like 2), GTC3, 4, 5 (maybe 2 car of each GTc class, and they NEVER all show up at same time, 4 cup car on the grid is a BIG turn out cheered like the 2nd coming), BSR (5-6 cars), spec 911 (10-20 cars), GTL (5-8 cars) and a few other strange cars like mine.
when the national scrutineer came out he noticed it right away and said that we are very different than the rest of the nation (he said it, not i). we have fully gutted to the bone race cars. no stock no prepared classes.
not that this is good or bad, just an observation.
talk to rich walton at jerry woods and tony at tcdesignfab.com
get their take on what to do. advice is free.
there are no F, G, blah blah classes in nor cal.
we have GTA, few GTB cars (like 2), GTC3, 4, 5 (maybe 2 car of each GTc class, and they NEVER all show up at same time, 4 cup car on the grid is a BIG turn out cheered like the 2nd coming), BSR (5-6 cars), spec 911 (10-20 cars), GTL (5-8 cars) and a few other strange cars like mine.
when the national scrutineer came out he noticed it right away and said that we are very different than the rest of the nation (he said it, not i). we have fully gutted to the bone race cars. no stock no prepared classes.
not that this is good or bad, just an observation.
talk to rich walton at jerry woods and tony at tcdesignfab.com
get their take on what to do. advice is free.
Hey John - you keep forgetting 944Spec. We have 11 Cars in NorCal and run NASA/PRC/PCA
(although I admit PCA is a work in progress)
10-18-2010, 11:21 PM
#53
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sorry, jerry.
as soon i saw your name, i realized i forgot spec 944 has big grid too. but i am usually gone by then (got to hurry home) when you guys are racing...
u need to park closer to those big wing cars. that way, you can make my little wing look bigger ;-)
as soon i saw your name, i realized i forgot spec 944 has big grid too. but i am usually gone by then (got to hurry home) when you guys are racing...
u need to park closer to those big wing cars. that way, you can make my little wing look bigger ;-)
10-18-2010, 11:29 PM
#54
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I am very familiar with Jerry Woods Enterprises, they did a bunch of prep work on my engine, and I took their rebuilding class.
===> then you know both jerry and rich are no BS kind of guy. they admonish you in a FRIENDLY kind of way hahaha....
I saw Tims' Turtle from the initial 964 to it's current incarnation, and I think that the tub is pretty much all that remains of the original 964.
===> LMAO, if that much. but i love that car. it's done RIGHT.
Selling mine is a complete loss at this point, as it has over 180K miles, and is not really drivable on the street comfortably.
===> perhaps, JWE can ... oh, i got it. you are saved. assuming you want to do GTL, your engine must be good, JWE massaged it. the fast GTL's. tom and gary's are both on 6 speeds, so even if you had 5 speed you will be chucking it anyways. so no loss.
I'm not really a podium type of guy, I just like getting out on the track and driving with others. The GGR PCA days have been very fun for me, and I have been to a number of the club races, and they are very different than those described back east on this board. I'll check out POC and see what they are about.
===> POC is VERY WELL ORGANIZED. but they are socal based. only come up to LS once a year. i race with them last two years when they are up here.
One of my biggest problems is that I'm an engineer, structural/aerospace, and I just love to tinker with things, and the car is just my latest endeavor. It's a disease.
===> i know. but i would suggest have the major stuff massaged by a shop, trust me there will be a lot of other things remain to be tinkered with after the shop is done. in fact, you can come over and tinker mine. i want to take my wiring harness out but keep only the USEFUL circuits. i heard 7-8 is all i need.
And I'm a consultant, so I don't think that I've got a "real job", more of a hobby that I get paid for
===> ah, one of those..... i consult too, on what, i have no idea.
===> then you know both jerry and rich are no BS kind of guy. they admonish you in a FRIENDLY kind of way hahaha....
I saw Tims' Turtle from the initial 964 to it's current incarnation, and I think that the tub is pretty much all that remains of the original 964.
===> LMAO, if that much. but i love that car. it's done RIGHT.
Selling mine is a complete loss at this point, as it has over 180K miles, and is not really drivable on the street comfortably.
===> perhaps, JWE can ... oh, i got it. you are saved. assuming you want to do GTL, your engine must be good, JWE massaged it. the fast GTL's. tom and gary's are both on 6 speeds, so even if you had 5 speed you will be chucking it anyways. so no loss.
I'm not really a podium type of guy, I just like getting out on the track and driving with others. The GGR PCA days have been very fun for me, and I have been to a number of the club races, and they are very different than those described back east on this board. I'll check out POC and see what they are about.
===> POC is VERY WELL ORGANIZED. but they are socal based. only come up to LS once a year. i race with them last two years when they are up here.
One of my biggest problems is that I'm an engineer, structural/aerospace, and I just love to tinker with things, and the car is just my latest endeavor. It's a disease.
===> i know. but i would suggest have the major stuff massaged by a shop, trust me there will be a lot of other things remain to be tinkered with after the shop is done. in fact, you can come over and tinker mine. i want to take my wiring harness out but keep only the USEFUL circuits. i heard 7-8 is all i need.
And I'm a consultant, so I don't think that I've got a "real job", more of a hobby that I get paid for
===> ah, one of those..... i consult too, on what, i have no idea.
10-19-2010, 12:28 AM
#56
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^ yes, seriously.
several cars have done it.
several cars have done it.
...
10-19-2010, 01:31 AM
#58
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^ there's my hero... bow bow again.
10-19-2010, 12:29 PM
#60
Three Wheelin'
Lots of careful considerations here... no matter which way you go. Note that the Norcal-based Porsche Racing Club does not exclude cars that would be in the PCA alphabet classes. We just don't have them showing up. We collapse them all into the same class in our stated rules, but if cars show up we will change it. This has more to do with how many trophies we buy than anything else (we give out trophies for both weekend races).
The guys at Jerry Woods Enterprises/SmartRacing products build and maintain some great cars. They have not built dozens of GTL cars... just a few. In reality, our GTL class was conceived as kind of an old folks home for GT cars... limitations on engine performance are intended to help keep costs contained.
If the car has raced in PCA Club races, more likely than not it is legal to race in NASA-sanctioned PRC races... so come on out and check out PRC next year.
As for turning the car into a race car, GTL is not a bad target-- we expect a half dozen or so cars at each event next year. The biggest challenge might be getting the weight out... but if you are handy and have the time it needn't be that bad. Some Getty Design 993 bodywork... a fiberglass top... these things aren't that hard to install if you are handy. I have helped a friend do this recently and it just wasn't that bad. Getting rid of street car interior and wiring, et cetera isn't that bad either. If you are handy and have the time... it can beat basket weaving or building a ship in a bottle during the winter season.
Some of the guys in our Spec 911 class prepped their own cars--- several projects are chronicled over on the other BB... GTL isn't that far away in terms of what is needed.
Of course JWE/SRP are always there locally... and if you are wiling to travel, Reno Rennsport may prove to be a bargain provider of services. Many of the cars that frequently race in the PRC have been built, and/or are maintained, at least in part, by these companies.
Lots of choices.
The guys at Jerry Woods Enterprises/SmartRacing products build and maintain some great cars. They have not built dozens of GTL cars... just a few. In reality, our GTL class was conceived as kind of an old folks home for GT cars... limitations on engine performance are intended to help keep costs contained.
If the car has raced in PCA Club races, more likely than not it is legal to race in NASA-sanctioned PRC races... so come on out and check out PRC next year.
As for turning the car into a race car, GTL is not a bad target-- we expect a half dozen or so cars at each event next year. The biggest challenge might be getting the weight out... but if you are handy and have the time it needn't be that bad. Some Getty Design 993 bodywork... a fiberglass top... these things aren't that hard to install if you are handy. I have helped a friend do this recently and it just wasn't that bad. Getting rid of street car interior and wiring, et cetera isn't that bad either. If you are handy and have the time... it can beat basket weaving or building a ship in a bottle during the winter season.
Some of the guys in our Spec 911 class prepped their own cars--- several projects are chronicled over on the other BB... GTL isn't that far away in terms of what is needed.
Of course JWE/SRP are always there locally... and if you are wiling to travel, Reno Rennsport may prove to be a bargain provider of services. Many of the cars that frequently race in the PRC have been built, and/or are maintained, at least in part, by these companies.
Lots of choices.
