F350Lawman

Here is the situation. My business partner started doing DEs last year and now plans on attending a driving school and progressing. His goal is to progress up through the DEs, get a license and maybe do some SCCA/NASA races on a very limited basis as time will not allow any serious racing commitment. Not in a rush but he needs to get it wise. He is on his 2nd car in as many years and thinking about another switch...he needs to get it right now. Wasting 20 grand every year on resale lose instead of perfecting one car doesn't make sense to me.

He is thinking about upgrading or replacing his car, that he otherwise loves. It is a 98 C4S 6 speed with a factory aero kit, factory big brakes, lw flywheel, beefier clutch, PSS9s, strut brace, and slightly bigger Yoko Advans on 996 turbo rims. He also has another set of hollow spokes with street tires.

Here is the problem the car is clean but he paid top dollar last spring right before things got ugly . On top of that he has about 10K in work since he bought it. His dilemma is whether to chalk up a 20-25k lose for one years limited use, ditch the car and buy a track car or build this one up a little. He was thinking of adding a chip, , headers/straight through exhaust, maybe intake, removing the interior, removing the AC, adding a cage and running this car as a dedicated DE/track car.

The alternative is taking the lose and buying a lower priced track car. So he can take the lose and buy a 25K track car and have about 50k to 55K tied up after his resale lose. Or he can throw another few bucks at this car and have about 70K and keep this car that he really likes styling wise. The costs will no doubt even out, cause you know he's gonna tinker with the new car too. He realizes he has much more fun on the track so whatever he gets will not be a street car.

What is the track potential of his current car with the mods as outlined. If he keeps it, the next motor rebuild would probably involve a displacement bump to 3.8 as HP/weight is the only thing he feels this car is not really ideal.

I was thinking that with the additional few mods and losing the AC and interior it might liven up a tad. Any guys here running or know someone running a similar setup. How's a chipped, headdered, lightened C4S 993 run? What would you do?

mooty

is this to be a "track car" or a "race car"
if it's a track car, just keep it. it's sunk cost. put another 10-20k into it, you have one monster fun car. why start from scratch.

if this is a race car..... as far as i know 993 is not particularly competitive in any class with any organization (i may be wrong, but i dont see many of them out there). also not sure if there are any "penalties" for AWD vehicles. find a class he wants to race in, build the car to that class.

i learned this the HARD way.

tlarocque

If he wants a track car tell him to get a GT3 and never look back! I would think that there would be some buyers for a nice 993 C4S and anything he loses on that transaction will be made up for after the first time he takes the GT3 to the track. After thinking that I would turn several current and previous P cars into track cars I now realize, after only 2 DE's in the new to me 996 GT3, that I was wasting my time and money. Porsche already made one for that purpose and it rips. 993 cars are nice but they don't have the best power:weight ratio and, despite what many AWD owners will tell you, the RWD car is the way to go (I had both a C4S and a 996 tt in the past). Just my two cents.

earlyapex

Keep the C4S, get a race license and budget for an "arrive and drive" program and well respected team. It will save him money in the long run since he is in a transition and cannot make up his mind on what he wants to do.

ninjabones

IMHO, as someone who has lived your future... keep the C4s as a dual purpose street-DE car. The 993 C4S is too valuable/collectable and not an optimum base for any racing class. By adding a few modest safety and performance upgrades (seats, harness, roll bar, and perhaps suspension) you would only help resale and can continue to enjoy the car on the street and for track days.

I've spent the last two years dumping too much money into a '95 993, which is now a fully prepared PCA G class or NASA GTS3 car. However, my very very limited foray into the wheel-to-wheel world (skip barber and scca racing schools) taught me very quickly that DEs do not adequately prepare you for wheel-to-wheel racing. I'm now too nervous to put my 993 in harm's way with my limited (i.e. none) racing experience. I've decided to spend this summer getting more wheel-to-wheel seasoning with SCCA and NASA in rented and borrowed SSM miatas. I'm registered for my first race with NASA at Summit Point later this month.

I did the SCCA school last weekend at Summit Point and got "tapped" lightly trying an inside pass into turn 10. A new miata quarter panel cost me $300. I'm the first to admit that I have a boat-load to learn about racing (and probably many mistakes will be made in the process). This was a much cheaper lesson in the school of hard knocks than it would have been in my 993 (same quarter panel is $1030). In addition, I've learned far more in the 3 days I've had in the miata than any school or DE in the past.

DanR

keep the car, spend the money on more seat time then reevaluate next year on whether he is ready / needs / wants a track car

Gary R.

Mark Lee seems to do "ok" in G in his... unless he is up against a "special" D car..

PedroNole

If money is the issue on keeping 2 cars, scrap the 993 take the hit and get a race car. It will still be cheaper than turning the 993 into a COMPETITIVE race car.

jaholmes

I have a 97 C4S that I started doing DE events with a stock car and got hooked. So then I started to make it into a track car and I feel like I ruined the car. I put JIC's with heavy springs and LWFW and now it's a rough ride on the road. I am planning on putting lighter springs.

Now I don't have as much time to hang out at the track as I do when I started but I still want to drive the car.

It is a slippery slope and it's hard to find the middle. You will end up on one side or the other. I tried to justify turning it into a race car but it's just not competitive. Plus there are plenty of already built race cars.

Plus it is too nice of a car to trash at the track and god forbid you stuff it.

I am waiting for an early 996. You could also go the boxster route, but I think there is big potential in the 996. Also a 95 993 would be a good choice too.

F350Lawman

Lot's of good suggestions. To clarify a little

Yes it will be a 90% DE car. If he continues he probably will eventually do some club races, more as an experience than an illusion of standing on podiums. He really doesn't drive on the street so comfort or legality is not a concern. Whenever he rides on the stree I am usually there in my car and we obviously lack the maturity to behave...

Money is always an issue somewhat. He's not hurting by any means, but 20K every year just as the cost of changing rides seems silly. He wants to get a direction and stick with it. He has seen what i am in the middle of and he knows that ripping apart a car and going full-blown racecar setup is not the most economical way to get it done. Better to let someone else do the work.

As already posted, I agree, the 996 C2s are getting real cheap and probably could be stripped and modded for a car with much more potential if you want to get more modern.

The AWD thing I agree with to a point. It does ruin the "feel" but for most guys it probably helps them stay out of the weeds now and again.

I think the whole thing boils down to his eventual goals as someone wrote. If he wants to learn and progress through DE and get into some races, the 993 is fine. The obvious advantage being he likes it and has $$ already invested in some mods. If he wants to get serious in racing, he should look elsewhere and pick a class that is within budget.

Anyway he's looking at a 95 M3 track car today so this might be a moot point.

swftiii

I went down the C4S path into racing for a few years and you just can't overcome the additional weight and air drag to be competitive in the stock class. I could keep up with everyone in the corner, but they would walk away on the straight.

It is a great DE car, but if he wants to race competitively, then it needs to be sold. Like others, I suggest getting into DE with the current car for a while to be sure it is something he really wants to do and afford. After some time and practice and moving up to racing is what he wants then consider a different car.

PM me if you want to discuss in more detail.

Skip

TR6

My advice to him... Don't turn the car you love into one you hate. There's no such thing as a dual purpose car that does both street and track well. A 993 C4S is a very nice car. Continuing to strip and prep it for track will make it a miserable car to ever think about using as a weekend street car. However, I would keep the 993 and go buy a cheap dedicated track car (miata or 944 NA) and spend a year or two driving that on the track and continue enjoying the 993 on the street. This what I opted to do with my RS America. Thankfully, I came to my senses just before I was about to start modding the RSA past the point of no return. Now the RSA is returned to street duty (I left the upgraded suspension and exhaust in it but returned the interior to 100% stock) and I love driving the miata on the track. I get to have my cake and eat it too.

Oh and if he starts saying something like he doesn't want to go to a lower powered track car, then tell him to drive a spec miata or other well set up momentum car first. It may change his mind. I never dreamed 125 hp could be so fun!

race911

As I drove my 4S yesterday for a whole, whopping SIX laps, I'll throw in on "what's the point". As much as I dislike the SM, it was a pleasure to drive for the next two sessions. Then I took the Radical out, and well, nothing like a purpose built race car!

Bottom line is what Skip mentioned above--while it may be entertaining to drive in slightly modified form for awhile, racing is a whole 'nother deal.

Other thing that hasn't been mentioned--where is he as a driver? Unless he's already at the ragged edge (raise your hand if YOU are), there's more to be gotten out of the car, no matter where it is on the ____ed around with scale.

CornerCarver

There are more capable and competitive cars available at a much lower cost than a 993. If he is serious about wheel to wheel racing and wants to stay in the Porsche family I would recommend keeping the 993 as a street/DE car and purchase a 944 cup or boxster spec and have some fun. If he can deal with racing a car other than Porsche, the spec miata is a no brainer.

race911

SM's aren't the holy grail. I'm usually quite irritated with myself when I drive mine. There's just no "there" there. Great chassis, check. Embarrass much more expensive hardware, check. Find out if you can truly drive without the crutch of a big engine, check. But for me, I truly like something that gives me more pleasure in driving--good grip, good acceleration, good braking. If life threw me the circumstances where I could ONLY afford a Miata as a track car, I'd give it up. Or I'd eat every other day, live in a cardboard box, and cobble together a 3.0 torsion bar 911 and used 4th hand parts to keep it out there circulating. But I'm weird that way!