Hey, Kibort and others...about our "duel"... wanna make lemonade outta lemons?
07-29-2009, 01:23 PM
#602
Rennlist Member
This thread is like a train wreck, or an accident on the highway. You don't want to look, but then, you can't help but look.
Paolo, seriously, you are the third to last person on earth (and I do mean the entire planet of 6.3 billion people) to be calling for a thread to end.
VR, you have no reason to retort John's disclosure of his endless giving to humanity. John, that was embarrassing, and then to bitch about flaming someone, and in the same post belittle a $100 commitment to Make a Wish.
Matthew 6
Giving to the Needy
1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret.
Paolo, seriously, you are the third to last person on earth (and I do mean the entire planet of 6.3 billion people) to be calling for a thread to end.
VR, you have no reason to retort John's disclosure of his endless giving to humanity. John, that was embarrassing, and then to bitch about flaming someone, and in the same post belittle a $100 commitment to Make a Wish.
Matthew 6
Giving to the Needy
1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret.
07-29-2009, 01:32 PM
#603
Banned
I keep looking for a way to make this a “silk purse out of a sow’s ear” – because what I see so far are a couple of men who want to have a grudge match – and to justify it – threw in a “charity angle” (words, often repeated by many of the participants in this thread).
“The Sows Ear”
Another impression is since reading the entire 30 plus pages of posts of this thread, it simply appears as banter between just a few, and whether intentional or not – just keeps bumping this thread to keep the views up? For 30 pages of “banter” there are no dates. No venues – and lest we not forget – the “charity angle” hasn’t been addresses much less details forthcoming? Oh – I’ve read the words – “make some kids smile” – and those are nice words. But words are not action. Nor plans. Nor any degree of execution to a plan.
Further and finally – I also see people with questions, comments (good and bad, btw) – who are summarily “dismissed” or flamed. I’ll address that aspect a few paragraphs down.
“Making a Silk Purse”.
I will take you at your word, Dave – that you want to “make a difference”. So here you go…
I am going to leave this thread open TEMPORARILY. During that time – you, Mark and Viking take it “off line” and figure out a date, venue, charity(ies) and conditions. I would suggest that a date late year or even beginning next year would be appropriate – but, we also want to know your objectives and those are – in no particular order and probably a partial list:
Conditions
Here are my conditions – as I’m about to offer up and expose to risk should you fail in any aspect – and upon those conditions be met as outlined below, I’ll offer the support of Rennwish via:
- I will allow all contributions to come in through my organization and be distributed to the Charity or Charities you designate above;
- Not until an actual plan exists from you three – will a new thread be posted, and at that time - this thread (where this is posted) will closed. Within that new thread, I don’t expect to have to read endless banter on the “organization” of the event – but rather, instead – it will be a thread where “anyone” can ask a question, question the objective and/or motives – and frankly – even express their dissatisfaction with the whole process;
- The OBJECTIVE of this are to help the less fortunate – and frankly – who “wins or loses” between you and Mark takes second place to the primary objective. It’s for the kids – not for you and Mark. For that – any and all expenses (track, insurance, entry fees, incidentals, etc.) the participants are personally responsible for. No part of ANY donation from any R’lister will be used for the cost of the event. In fact - 100% of every penny donated goes to the designated charity(ies). If folks want to privately help with your expenses – they ARE NOT to be donated through Rennwish.
- Now – here is going to be the toughest condition for the three of you… All three (Viking, Mark and Dave) – you will be the “poster boys” of model Rennlist citizenry. That means no more flipping someone off with a “one liner” – especially if they disagree with you – or have disagreed with you in the past. That includes those whom who have flamed here – and if they appear to question your motives, charity, objectives – you use that POST to justify to the rest of the audience your maturity and dedication to just get it done for the kids. By example – here is a post that you just “flipped off” rather than address the OPs issues and concerns. Your reply neither engendered yourself nor “just getting it done for the kids”. As you know - there are other & multiple examples to be found in this same thread and elsewhere in this community. So – the condition is – at all times – to all people – you remain in control and professional. It really is that easy… Or really is that difficult.
In short, should this proceed - your actions directly impact my reputation and organization which a whole lot of people have built, supported and trust in. I will not risk their trust – and to be sure, I’m certain I will be questioned as why I am making this offer to begin with by many of them – and that’s their prerogative and their right as “stakeholders” in Rennwish.
So bottom line – I’ll do “my part” for as long as you do your part. But – I won’t risk my reputation if you are unable to meet any of the above conditions. And moreso - should flames erupt that you participate in, in any way, I will hold you responsible and withdraw my support immediately and return any funds donated to this project at the members’ request.
Here is your chance to do what you say – and say what you do. And in public. And please know and be assured I am measured by, and with, the same exact standards with each project Rennwish has undertaken or will undertake.
Your choice.
Or rather, your opportunity to execute and deliver on your intentions as you’ve stated them.
John
“The Sows Ear”
Another impression is since reading the entire 30 plus pages of posts of this thread, it simply appears as banter between just a few, and whether intentional or not – just keeps bumping this thread to keep the views up? For 30 pages of “banter” there are no dates. No venues – and lest we not forget – the “charity angle” hasn’t been addresses much less details forthcoming? Oh – I’ve read the words – “make some kids smile” – and those are nice words. But words are not action. Nor plans. Nor any degree of execution to a plan.
Further and finally – I also see people with questions, comments (good and bad, btw) – who are summarily “dismissed” or flamed. I’ll address that aspect a few paragraphs down.
“Making a Silk Purse”.
I will take you at your word, Dave – that you want to “make a difference”. So here you go…
I am going to leave this thread open TEMPORARILY. During that time – you, Mark and Viking take it “off line” and figure out a date, venue, charity(ies) and conditions. I would suggest that a date late year or even beginning next year would be appropriate – but, we also want to know your objectives and those are – in no particular order and probably a partial list:
- Race, time trial, Drivers Education - whatever;
- Location;
- Rules;
- Participation (open to anyone – or just you and Mark);
- Designated Charity – national, regional – and that charity’s involvement (MAW and giving rides to kids – open karting area for the kids – there are hundreds of these ideas – but YOU think of them – not me).;
- Objectives – financial total to be raised/donated and the disbursement plan.
- Etc…
Conditions
Here are my conditions – as I’m about to offer up and expose to risk should you fail in any aspect – and upon those conditions be met as outlined below, I’ll offer the support of Rennwish via:
- I will allow all contributions to come in through my organization and be distributed to the Charity or Charities you designate above;
- Not until an actual plan exists from you three – will a new thread be posted, and at that time - this thread (where this is posted) will closed. Within that new thread, I don’t expect to have to read endless banter on the “organization” of the event – but rather, instead – it will be a thread where “anyone” can ask a question, question the objective and/or motives – and frankly – even express their dissatisfaction with the whole process;
- The OBJECTIVE of this are to help the less fortunate – and frankly – who “wins or loses” between you and Mark takes second place to the primary objective. It’s for the kids – not for you and Mark. For that – any and all expenses (track, insurance, entry fees, incidentals, etc.) the participants are personally responsible for. No part of ANY donation from any R’lister will be used for the cost of the event. In fact - 100% of every penny donated goes to the designated charity(ies). If folks want to privately help with your expenses – they ARE NOT to be donated through Rennwish.
- Now – here is going to be the toughest condition for the three of you… All three (Viking, Mark and Dave) – you will be the “poster boys” of model Rennlist citizenry. That means no more flipping someone off with a “one liner” – especially if they disagree with you – or have disagreed with you in the past. That includes those whom who have flamed here – and if they appear to question your motives, charity, objectives – you use that POST to justify to the rest of the audience your maturity and dedication to just get it done for the kids. By example – here is a post that you just “flipped off” rather than address the OPs issues and concerns. Your reply neither engendered yourself nor “just getting it done for the kids”. As you know - there are other & multiple examples to be found in this same thread and elsewhere in this community. So – the condition is – at all times – to all people – you remain in control and professional. It really is that easy… Or really is that difficult.
In short, should this proceed - your actions directly impact my reputation and organization which a whole lot of people have built, supported and trust in. I will not risk their trust – and to be sure, I’m certain I will be questioned as why I am making this offer to begin with by many of them – and that’s their prerogative and their right as “stakeholders” in Rennwish.
So bottom line – I’ll do “my part” for as long as you do your part. But – I won’t risk my reputation if you are unable to meet any of the above conditions. And moreso - should flames erupt that you participate in, in any way, I will hold you responsible and withdraw my support immediately and return any funds donated to this project at the members’ request.
Here is your chance to do what you say – and say what you do. And in public. And please know and be assured I am measured by, and with, the same exact standards with each project Rennwish has undertaken or will undertake.
Your choice.
Or rather, your opportunity to execute and deliver on your intentions as you’ve stated them.
John
07-29-2009, 02:00 PM
#604
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Perhaps, the mantra of "More racing, less talking" should be the theme of this thread.
07-29-2009, 02:01 PM
#605
Banned
07-29-2009, 02:05 PM
#606
Perfect Angel
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Conditions
- Not until an actual plan exists from you three – will a new thread be posted, and at that time - this thread (where this is posted) will closed. Within that new thread, I don’t expect to have to read endless banter on the “organization” of the event – but rather, instead – it will be a thread where “anyone” can ask a question, question the objective and/or motives – and frankly – even express their dissatisfaction with the whole process;
- Now – here is going to be the toughest condition for the three of you… All three (Viking, Mark and Dave) – you will be the “poster boys” of model Rennlist citizenry. That means no more flipping someone off with a “one liner” – especially if they disagree with you – or have disagreed with you in the past. That includes those whom who have flamed here – and if they appear to question your motives, charity, objectives – you use that POST to justify to the rest of the audience your maturity and dedication to just get it done for the kids. By example – here is a post that you just “flipped off” rather than address the OPs issues and concerns. Your reply neither engendered yourself nor “just getting it done for the kids”. As you know - there are other & multiple examples to be found in this same thread and elsewhere in this community. So – the condition is – at all times – to all people – you remain in control and professional. It really is that easy… Or really is that difficult.
In short, should this proceed - your actions directly impact my reputation and organization which a whole lot of people have built, supported and trust in. I will not risk their trust – and to be sure, I’m certain I will be questioned as why I am making this offer to begin with by many of them – and that’s their prerogative and their right as “stakeholders” in Rennwish.
So bottom line – I’ll do “my part” for as long as you do your part. But – I won’t risk my reputation if you are unable to meet any of the above conditions. And moreso - should flames erupt that you participate in, in any way, I will hold you responsible and withdraw my support immediately and return any funds donated to this project at the members’ request.
- Not until an actual plan exists from you three – will a new thread be posted, and at that time - this thread (where this is posted) will closed. Within that new thread, I don’t expect to have to read endless banter on the “organization” of the event – but rather, instead – it will be a thread where “anyone” can ask a question, question the objective and/or motives – and frankly – even express their dissatisfaction with the whole process;
- Now – here is going to be the toughest condition for the three of you… All three (Viking, Mark and Dave) – you will be the “poster boys” of model Rennlist citizenry. That means no more flipping someone off with a “one liner” – especially if they disagree with you – or have disagreed with you in the past. That includes those whom who have flamed here – and if they appear to question your motives, charity, objectives – you use that POST to justify to the rest of the audience your maturity and dedication to just get it done for the kids. By example – here is a post that you just “flipped off” rather than address the OPs issues and concerns. Your reply neither engendered yourself nor “just getting it done for the kids”. As you know - there are other & multiple examples to be found in this same thread and elsewhere in this community. So – the condition is – at all times – to all people – you remain in control and professional. It really is that easy… Or really is that difficult.
In short, should this proceed - your actions directly impact my reputation and organization which a whole lot of people have built, supported and trust in. I will not risk their trust – and to be sure, I’m certain I will be questioned as why I am making this offer to begin with by many of them – and that’s their prerogative and their right as “stakeholders” in Rennwish.
So bottom line – I’ll do “my part” for as long as you do your part. But – I won’t risk my reputation if you are unable to meet any of the above conditions. And moreso - should flames erupt that you participate in, in any way, I will hold you responsible and withdraw my support immediately and return any funds donated to this project at the members’ request.
Kind of setting them up for failure aren't you?
Kind of setting them up to be punching bags too.
This is the internets. Any ahole with a computer could derail what may end up helping a good cause.
Seems like there should be some similar thread rules imposed on posters who may want to participate in the discussion.
07-29-2009, 02:21 PM
#607
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I keep looking for a way to make this a “silk purse out of a sow’s ear” – because what I see so far are a couple of men who want to have a grudge match – and to justify it – threw in a “charity angle” (words, often repeated by many of the participants in this thread).
“The Sows Ear”
Another impression is since reading the entire 30 plus pages of posts of this thread, it simply appears as banter between just a few, and whether intentional or not – just keeps bumping this thread to keep the views up? For 30 pages of “banter” there are no dates. No venues – and lest we not forget – the “charity angle” hasn’t been addresses much less details forthcoming? Oh – I’ve read the words – “make some kids smile” – and those are nice words. But words are not action. Nor plans. Nor any degree of execution to a plan.
Further and finally – I also see people with questions, comments (good and bad, btw) – who are summarily “dismissed” or flamed. I’ll address that aspect a few paragraphs down.
“Making a Silk Purse”.
I will take you at your word, Dave – that you want to “make a difference”. So here you go…
I am going to leave this thread open TEMPORARILY. During that time – you, Mark and Viking take it “off line” and figure out a date, venue, charity(ies) and conditions. I would suggest that a date late year or even beginning next year would be appropriate – but, we also want to know your objectives and those are – in no particular order and probably a partial list:
Conditions
Here are my conditions – as I’m about to offer up and expose to risk should you fail in any aspect – and upon those conditions be met as outlined below, I’ll offer the support of Rennwish via:
- I will allow all contributions to come in through my organization and be distributed to the Charity or Charities you designate above;
- Not until an actual plan exists from you three – will a new thread be posted, and at that time - this thread (where this is posted) will closed. Within that new thread, I don’t expect to have to read endless banter on the “organization” of the event – but rather, instead – it will be a thread where “anyone” can ask a question, question the objective and/or motives – and frankly – even express their dissatisfaction with the whole process;
- The OBJECTIVE of this are to help the less fortunate – and frankly – who “wins or loses” between you and Mark takes second place to the primary objective. It’s for the kids – not for you and Mark. For that – any and all expenses (track, insurance, entry fees, incidentals, etc.) the participants are personally responsible for. No part of ANY donation from any R’lister will be used for the cost of the event. In fact - 100% of every penny donated goes to the designated charity(ies). If folks want to privately help with your expenses – they ARE NOT to be donated through Rennwish.
- Now – here is going to be the toughest condition for the three of you… All three (Viking, Mark and Dave) – you will be the “poster boys” of model Rennlist citizenry. That means no more flipping someone off with a “one liner” – especially if they disagree with you – or have disagreed with you in the past. That includes those whom who have flamed here – and if they appear to question your motives, charity, objectives – you use that POST to justify to the rest of the audience your maturity and dedication to just get it done for the kids. By example – here is a post that you just “flipped off” rather than address the OPs issues and concerns. Your reply neither engendered yourself nor “just getting it done for the kids”. As you know - there are other & multiple examples to be found in this same thread and elsewhere in this community. So – the condition is – at all times – to all people – you remain in control and professional. It really is that easy… Or really is that difficult.
In short, should this proceed - your actions directly impact my reputation and organization which a whole lot of people have built, supported and trust in. I will not risk their trust – and to be sure, I’m certain I will be questioned as why I am making this offer to begin with by many of them – and that’s their prerogative and their right as “stakeholders” in Rennwish.
So bottom line – I’ll do “my part” for as long as you do your part. But – I won’t risk my reputation if you are unable to meet any of the above conditions. And moreso - should flames erupt that you participate in, in any way, I will hold you responsible and withdraw my support immediately and return any funds donated to this project at the members’ request.
Here is your chance to do what you say – and say what you do. And in public. And please know and be assured I am measured by, and with, the same exact standards with each project Rennwish has undertaken or will undertake.
Your choice.
Or rather, your opportunity to execute and deliver on your intentions as you’ve stated them.
John
“The Sows Ear”
Another impression is since reading the entire 30 plus pages of posts of this thread, it simply appears as banter between just a few, and whether intentional or not – just keeps bumping this thread to keep the views up? For 30 pages of “banter” there are no dates. No venues – and lest we not forget – the “charity angle” hasn’t been addresses much less details forthcoming? Oh – I’ve read the words – “make some kids smile” – and those are nice words. But words are not action. Nor plans. Nor any degree of execution to a plan.
Further and finally – I also see people with questions, comments (good and bad, btw) – who are summarily “dismissed” or flamed. I’ll address that aspect a few paragraphs down.
“Making a Silk Purse”.
I will take you at your word, Dave – that you want to “make a difference”. So here you go…
I am going to leave this thread open TEMPORARILY. During that time – you, Mark and Viking take it “off line” and figure out a date, venue, charity(ies) and conditions. I would suggest that a date late year or even beginning next year would be appropriate – but, we also want to know your objectives and those are – in no particular order and probably a partial list:
- Race, time trial, Drivers Education - whatever;
- Location;
- Rules;
- Participation (open to anyone – or just you and Mark);
- Designated Charity – national, regional – and that charity’s involvement (MAW and giving rides to kids – open karting area for the kids – there are hundreds of these ideas – but YOU think of them – not me).;
- Objectives – financial total to be raised/donated and the disbursement plan.
- Etc…
Conditions
Here are my conditions – as I’m about to offer up and expose to risk should you fail in any aspect – and upon those conditions be met as outlined below, I’ll offer the support of Rennwish via:
- I will allow all contributions to come in through my organization and be distributed to the Charity or Charities you designate above;
- Not until an actual plan exists from you three – will a new thread be posted, and at that time - this thread (where this is posted) will closed. Within that new thread, I don’t expect to have to read endless banter on the “organization” of the event – but rather, instead – it will be a thread where “anyone” can ask a question, question the objective and/or motives – and frankly – even express their dissatisfaction with the whole process;
- The OBJECTIVE of this are to help the less fortunate – and frankly – who “wins or loses” between you and Mark takes second place to the primary objective. It’s for the kids – not for you and Mark. For that – any and all expenses (track, insurance, entry fees, incidentals, etc.) the participants are personally responsible for. No part of ANY donation from any R’lister will be used for the cost of the event. In fact - 100% of every penny donated goes to the designated charity(ies). If folks want to privately help with your expenses – they ARE NOT to be donated through Rennwish.
- Now – here is going to be the toughest condition for the three of you… All three (Viking, Mark and Dave) – you will be the “poster boys” of model Rennlist citizenry. That means no more flipping someone off with a “one liner” – especially if they disagree with you – or have disagreed with you in the past. That includes those whom who have flamed here – and if they appear to question your motives, charity, objectives – you use that POST to justify to the rest of the audience your maturity and dedication to just get it done for the kids. By example – here is a post that you just “flipped off” rather than address the OPs issues and concerns. Your reply neither engendered yourself nor “just getting it done for the kids”. As you know - there are other & multiple examples to be found in this same thread and elsewhere in this community. So – the condition is – at all times – to all people – you remain in control and professional. It really is that easy… Or really is that difficult.
In short, should this proceed - your actions directly impact my reputation and organization which a whole lot of people have built, supported and trust in. I will not risk their trust – and to be sure, I’m certain I will be questioned as why I am making this offer to begin with by many of them – and that’s their prerogative and their right as “stakeholders” in Rennwish.
So bottom line – I’ll do “my part” for as long as you do your part. But – I won’t risk my reputation if you are unable to meet any of the above conditions. And moreso - should flames erupt that you participate in, in any way, I will hold you responsible and withdraw my support immediately and return any funds donated to this project at the members’ request.
Here is your chance to do what you say – and say what you do. And in public. And please know and be assured I am measured by, and with, the same exact standards with each project Rennwish has undertaken or will undertake.
Your choice.
Or rather, your opportunity to execute and deliver on your intentions as you’ve stated them.
John
No deal, John. We will do it OUR way, not yours. We never wanted or sought funds, or for that matter to funnel fulds thru your charity. We do not want others' money, just participation. We merely wanted to give some kids who have lost most if not all hope an experience of a lifetime. I asked your advice on charity organization. That is all. And what did I get in return? Belittlement of MaW and a suggestion that Mark and I had motives other than the kids.
I asked Bob to close this thread, and Mark, Viking, and I would accomplish out goal w/o having our motives or beneficiaries questioned. That is what we will do.
Have a great day.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
07-29-2009, 02:29 PM
#608
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I've never known Viking to be anthing but a "poster boy" here on Rennlist. Just sayin...
07-29-2009, 02:30 PM
#609
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Kind of setting them up for failure aren't you?
Kind of setting them up to be punching bags too.
This is the internets. Any ahole with a computer could derail what may end up helping a good cause.
Seems like there should be some similar thread rules imposed on posters who may want to participate in the discussion.
Kind of setting them up to be punching bags too.
This is the internets. Any ahole with a computer could derail what may end up helping a good cause.
Seems like there should be some similar thread rules imposed on posters who may want to participate in the discussion.
I don't think John is setting them up for failure. Quite the opposite, he is reminding them of the objective set out in the first post in this thread and then offering to help.
As many have posted, the "charitable aspect" VR established in post #1 has been buried in taunts, jibes, insults. I have been following this thread and even posted a short note pages ago suggesting that the "charity" side of things needs a lot more attention that school-yard insults. On more than one occasion, I have been tempted to send this thread to the abyss - where quite frankly it belongs.
John being the guy he is has suggested a better alternative including making Rennwish available as a vehicle for handling donations to a tax exempt organization. Kudos to him!
The only difference of opinion I have (or perhaps not) with John is that I also hold Mr. Kibort equally responsible for turning this thread and the original idea into a pissing match. As others have said, who donates money for a pissing contest? Certainly not me and I probably represent the silent majority.
Having followed the whole miserable thread, it seems to me that Mark contributed his share of insults, posts and wordiness.
In the end I am ashamed of both of the protagonists. Let's see if this can be salvaged.
This means more (way more) emphasis on "the kids" and way less on the grudge match.
Frankly the race or time trial will prove nothing. On any given day, someone wins. The next day the finishing order can be reversed - see real racing!
Regards,
Last edited by Bob Rouleau; 07-29-2009 at 11:02 PM. Reason: To hold both equally responsible on reflection
07-29-2009, 02:33 PM
#610
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
VR, I will respect your request (just posted above) and close this thread. I hope a new one will emerge which will make us forget about this one.
Regards,
Regards,
