WC Touring and GT
03-20-2009, 06:45 PM
#61
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Its "Guy", Bryan, and for the first 2 laps as the best DOTs. Again, give the "toyos" a rest as I was refering to all Non slick tires of DOT rating.
now crack open those highschool math or phyisics book and teach yourself that equal HP curves, creat equal rear wheel torque at ANY vehicle speed, regardless of the engine torque values!
mk
QUOTE=Veloce Raptor;6402441]Simmer down, gladiator-boy.
I am still waiting for "all the BMW guys" who say slicks are the same as Toyos.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach[/QUOTE]
now crack open those highschool math or phyisics book and teach yourself that equal HP curves, creat equal rear wheel torque at ANY vehicle speed, regardless of the engine torque values!
mk
QUOTE=Veloce Raptor;6402441]Simmer down, gladiator-boy.
I am still waiting for "all the BMW guys" who say slicks are the same as Toyos.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach[/QUOTE]
03-20-2009, 06:52 PM
#62
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you must not have driven RA1s very much. they are an aquired taste and need to be pushed well beyond the edge from what i remember of the R3s, to work well. they slide a lot but can be very quick. heck, look at the WC GT times. do you think there are 2 more seconds by them using a R6? 2:10 for the cup cars at 2900lbs vs 2:08 or more (because 2 seconds on a 1:35 lap at laguna might be 4 seconds at sebring) with Hoosiers. I dont think the WC GT guys would be any faster on hoosiers, if they were, i would call it 1 second at best. again, my opinion.
Slicks on them would jump to 2:08s I bet!
again, my opinion.
mk
Slicks on them would jump to 2:08s I bet!
again, my opinion.
mk
No offense, but it's hard to take much of what you say about tires with a grain of salt if you and your friends believe there's not much difference between Toyo and Hoosier R-comps. To put it simply: You're doing something wrong. The gap between those is quite a bit more substantial than the gap between Hooser R-comps and slicks, even without any setup time. You should literally be able to bolt them on and see an instant drop in lap times.
Honestly...take a look at the open R-comp classes at the SCCA and NASA Championships and tell me how many of the podium finishers are on Toyo's. Toyo's are a glorified high performance street tire. That's the reason they make good spec tires for Spec E30 and Spec Miata.
Honestly...take a look at the open R-comp classes at the SCCA and NASA Championships and tell me how many of the podium finishers are on Toyo's. Toyo's are a glorified high performance street tire. That's the reason they make good spec tires for Spec E30 and Spec Miata.
03-20-2009, 08:52 PM
#63
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I was required to run them on my Spec Miata...
On a 2+ minute track and after the teams have time to change their setup to the new tires, I would probably bet a lot of money on it.
1 second...sure, at Lime Rock where they run sub 1 minute lap times.
1 second...sure, at Lime Rock where they run sub 1 minute lap times.
03-20-2009, 09:24 PM
#64
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That, as you have pointed out Bryan, is the problem with these ridiculous questions/debates, etc. No definition of the variables around the issue, so anyone can make a claim, then later say "oh, I meant on a yada, yada, yada, track with a yada, yada, yada car, etc. regarding conditions, set-up, driver. Leaves a lot of wiggle room for the vehemently uncertain!
03-21-2009, 01:48 AM
#67
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I will back Brian up on this! I ran a WC GT Spec Corvette at Road Atlanta while I was coaching a guy. The car had old R6 on it and with lap that was not a good lap I ran a 1:28.0xx lap with lots of mistakes in it. Trust me the GT guys can go a lot faster with an R6 than an RA1 or a R888. The weight difference of the tires would help them to be 1 second a lap faster than the other tires
03-21-2009, 03:31 AM
#68
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I trust Seth and thats the answer I was looking for. However was that a lap on the new pavement?
anyway, if hoosiers are that much better, Im going to have to get a set and find out for myself.
VR dont get on such an ego high here. There is nothing im posting here that is fact, only opinion based on what ive seen and read. I wouldnt even put money, maybe a beer that a WC car wouldnt be more than 1 second faster in the heat of the race or qual. However, the main point here is is the slick closer to the hoosier than the hoosier is to the Toyo? That was Bryan's point.
Now Seth, with the tire weight differnce point, you are getting into the opinion area. do you know the effects, sans the sprung weight effects in handling, on the extra 3 lbs a tire of the toyo vs the hoosier? (was 5 lb a tire when it was the R3-R4 and didnt have the steel belts). Just to understand the physics there, 5lbs on the tire, has the same effect as if it was 10lbs in the car. (because its spinning on a 11" average radius) 4 tires, like 40lbs of weight in the car. I would have to bet that would be less than .5 second. (educated guess)
mk
anyway, if hoosiers are that much better, Im going to have to get a set and find out for myself.
VR dont get on such an ego high here. There is nothing im posting here that is fact, only opinion based on what ive seen and read. I wouldnt even put money, maybe a beer that a WC car wouldnt be more than 1 second faster in the heat of the race or qual. However, the main point here is is the slick closer to the hoosier than the hoosier is to the Toyo? That was Bryan's point.
Now Seth, with the tire weight differnce point, you are getting into the opinion area. do you know the effects, sans the sprung weight effects in handling, on the extra 3 lbs a tire of the toyo vs the hoosier? (was 5 lb a tire when it was the R3-R4 and didnt have the steel belts). Just to understand the physics there, 5lbs on the tire, has the same effect as if it was 10lbs in the car. (because its spinning on a 11" average radius) 4 tires, like 40lbs of weight in the car. I would have to bet that would be less than .5 second. (educated guess)
mk
I will back Brian up on this! I ran a WC GT Spec Corvette at Road Atlanta while I was coaching a guy. The car had old R6 on it and with lap that was not a good lap I ran a 1:28.0xx lap with lots of mistakes in it. Trust me the GT guys can go a lot faster with an R6 than an RA1 or a R888. The weight difference of the tires would help them to be 1 second a lap faster than the other tires
03-21-2009, 03:34 AM
#69
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I know so little, because I call out 1 second vs a possible 2 second difference between a hoosier vs a toyo?
Again, this wasnt a knowlege test , it was a opinion test. so many variables.
This wasnt a same shaped HP curve comparitive acceleration test for you VR.
mk
Again, this wasnt a knowlege test , it was a opinion test. so many variables.
This wasnt a same shaped HP curve comparitive acceleration test for you VR.
mk
03-21-2009, 03:53 AM
#70
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seth, back to you. Nice job again!
anyway, Ive always wondered, are the 2 seconds different from qual to race times due to set up, or just not pushing the car in the same way. does that 1 heat cycle make the tire slower for the next day race? I dont know, ive never tried a new set, only the Caddies' and Audi's used stuff.
mk
anyway, Ive always wondered, are the 2 seconds different from qual to race times due to set up, or just not pushing the car in the same way. does that 1 heat cycle make the tire slower for the next day race?
I dont know, ive never tried a new set, only the Caddies' and Audi's used stuff. mk
03-21-2009, 08:36 PM
#72
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What happened to the WCGT & Touring thread? Congrats Seth on a great race. What does R Compund Hoosiers have to do with World Challenge? It's not even the tire they use in the series. Congrats again Seth.
03-22-2009, 01:38 AM
#73
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Someone was giving reasons why someone else was slower than normal in the race because they were running a cup car and not the WCGT GT3. I only recalled a race where one of the top guys between a battle of GT3s (henzler and Liddell) when one had to use the supercup car to run the WCGT race. His time was 1 second slower than his time, equal to the other guy in qualifying.
The thought was that the performance trade off of slicks vs toyos was almost equal to the performance trade off of the power differences showing that the toyo wasnt that bad of a tire compared to the supercup tire. I forgot the race and forgot the difference in time, but 1-2 seconds was about the range. Point was, I personally think that the toyos perform pretty darn good.
The thought was that the performance trade off of slicks vs toyos was almost equal to the performance trade off of the power differences showing that the toyo wasnt that bad of a tire compared to the supercup tire. I forgot the race and forgot the difference in time, but 1-2 seconds was about the range. Point was, I personally think that the toyos perform pretty darn good.
