onefastviking

race win ratio, or better said, how many races won out of how many races started.

I still think it's best if we just agree to disagree though.

Veloce Raptor

Which is what I had proposed in the PREVIOUS epic thread on this topic, to no avail.

Rassel

I'm not really sure where you're heading with this. Are you going to compare cars with race wins vs no race wins and do some stats on it?

Agree or disagree. That might be the question, but on a serious note; you're actually misinforming a lot of people here. There is a reason why most regulations are done with power to weight ratio.

You guys will never be convinced. At least not here on the forum, that's for sure. But if you ever would like to get to know a bit more about this topic. I suggest you look at some race engine books and optimizations of displacement regulated engines. In other words, how you get more speed in your car by working on a regulated engine. Don't buy a junk book, some internet homepage stuff or a poor magazine article. Get some real stuff.

Regarding gearbox, it's harder to find open literature about the gearbox optimization but this should be in more serious data logging books. Here, look for gear ratio optimization.

If it's all mumbo jumbo, get in contact with some of the motorsport departments and someone who works with custom gearboxes. They should be able to brief you about this fairly quick. Just don't expect a polite comment if you throw your theories on them. They can be quite harsh and rarely have time for non-customers.

If you're really racing and interested into going faster around the track you should be interested in any remote way to get you a little bit quicker on the track.

mark kibort

Top 3 finishes over the last 100 races? Ill go there. Then you have to factor in what and who your competition was, $ cost per win, number lead changes per race average. range of lap times, etc etc. (to see if it was really a race, and not a time trial or "commuter driving" etc.) See how silly this all becomes. dont fight it.

Why doesnt VR fly out here and race me? Tell you what. we do a spec miata rental. Run them in ITE so we can factor out the "crash derby factor", winner pays for the other persons rental weekend. No bumping. Ill do that any day!
Now, off the ego stand.......

Its not an agree to disagree point. VR said one car would come off a corner better than another strictly due to engine hp and that is just plain wrong. I can prove this at any level. Now, if you compare the M5 with the caddy and take into account all the other factors, sure, there will be some differences, BUT they wont be due to those HP curves. or the peak engine torque values.

Another data point that proves the concept. P=FV. power equals force x speed. this means at ANY speed (vehicle speed) same power will equate to the same force (ie torque at the rear wheels). The example of the turbo winnig most all segments of the time segments, means it has more HP under the Hp curve. And, its greater engine torque determines this too. But, its not the rule. only an indication. there are no examples that can prove this wrong if both engines have the same RPM range. if they dont, all bets are off. Thats the point of all this. Nothing more.

mk

Veloce Raptor

Oh, PLEASE. I am doing nothing of the kind, any more than you and Electric Supercharger Boy are misinforming. I am giving what is known as my OPINION based on what is known as REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE.

Also, Viking's point is totally valid.

Veloce Raptor

Oh look, folks. GhettoRacer is back.

mark kibort

VR,

You are being closed minded and providing misinformation to anyone reading your replies. If we talk about just engine torque values they are meaning less in and out of the real world. without rpm, they mean absolutely nothing. What I am stressing is "Rear wheel torque" which NO ONE on this list, including me can quote of their car at any speed. We all know HP and we all know if our HP curves are better or worse than our competition.

If you and anyone with decent experience, were to race a BMW vs Caddy with those Hp figures, the race would very close. the cars would accelerate out of the turns with the exact same rates. (on paper) Now, if they didnt, it would be due to OTHER factors than one having more engine torque than the other.

set up, driver, gear ratio optimization, to name a few would contribute to differences. BUT, not the proven, given constants of the universe. PHYSICS!

Acceleration = Power/(mass x velocity). Its the LAW !

And please, I asked nicely to keep your childish insults off this discussion.

Mk

mark kibort

VR, are you going to answer the question and prove your point, or just flame when you DONT know the answer?

If not, anyone can chime in here in state which engine they would want in their race car.

another hint. one has more usesable HP and the other has more torque.

Again, its the concepts that we are discussing here Understanding hp and torque curves and what they mean to performance. Nothing more nothing less. Stop trying to turn this into something personal. Obviously, you have some issues.


mk

Veloce Raptor

The irony is strong in you, my son.

Please refer back to post #81.

Rassel

This is tiresome.

Yes you are, even such a shallow source as Wikipedia tells that you're wrong.

And regarding your real world experience - it's nothing compared Porsche's own real world experience. You don't want to ask those who are accredited professionals with loads REAL WORLD RACE EXPERIENCE, with more engine builds than you've ever seen, more podium wins than you ever have started. And instead you think taking two random people to race each other to see what's correct?!!

Well, your WORLD is a bubble. Don't want it to burst? Fine, sit there on the internet and talk about your butt-o-meter. The rest of the world left you a long time ago. I've pointed you to directions where you don't have to listen to people like Mark and me. Directions to the most successful in their field but still: You're like old Russia, in denial and bitter to the end.

Veloce Raptor

^^^ LOL ^^^

So bitter and closed-minded.

Tiresome, indeed.

/THREAD

Rassel

Pick up the phone and ask a pro. Stop stalling.

Veloce Raptor

Been there done that, with many of them.

Rassel

Who, when, what? Make a reference.

Veloce Raptor

Why bother? What difference will it make? The two of you have totally closed minds, and are completely intolerant of differing opinions on this topic. Mark has hurled half a dozen unsolicited PM's at me last week with increasingly strident insults and 1,200 more words explaining why he is "right". I have no desire to stoop to the level of religious zealotry and bring others whose names you'd recognize into it.

Namedropping will not make my opinion more true or yours less true, or vice versa.