onefastviking

VR, lose the battle, win the war !

Veloce Raptor

Yup. Hammering on wayne is like batting practice anyway.

A.Wayne

The gear box is part of the equation , yah !

VR can't win squat in fact that **** couldn't driver nails into a drywall ...........

Veloce Raptor

No ****, dingleberry. Please refer back to post #12 in this thread.

Man, you are dumb. Ta-ta for now!

A.Wayne

Yes Mr "RPM" is a waste of time Dumber than a nail DE "coach"

Greg Smith

There's really not enough data for us to know. First off the torque numbers at the flywheel can't be directly compared due to torque multiplication of the trans and diff(for this example we will assume the transmissions are the same). Just because car A has more torque at the flywheel does not mean it has more torque at the wheel, this is do to torque multiplication at the differential. Lets say car A has a 2.98 diff and car B has a 4.10, with those gears both cars would shift at the same MPH. So car A makes 396 ft/lbs x 2.98=1180 ft/lbs, car B makes 300 x 4.10=1230 ft/lbs. Since car B has the 'extra' gear multiplication it actually makes more wheel torque at its peak.

However, peak torque numbers don't mean a lot, what matters is area under the torque curve in the usual track rpm range(say upper 50%, which is rather generous). The car with more area x diff ratio is going to be the faster one.
Keep in mind the peak torque rpms are relative to that cars redline, not the other car. Car A's peak torque is 62% into the cars rev range, car B's peak torque is 74% into the cars rev range. Yes that's a significant amount, but it's not 3800 vs 6100.

Mark, torque is what accelerates a car, not hp. Also, HP is calculated from torque, not the other way around.

wanna911

Ok, aside from the bickering..........

What if we are talking street tires here, not race conditions, no gears adjusted for racing.

Let's say a 997 GT3 motor at 415 hp and 300 tq vs a C5 Z06 at 405 hp and 400 tq wedged in a 944 on PS2's. Rev stay the same, hp stays the same etc. All Porsche vs Chevy aside just looking at power application.

I happen to like the high revs, but my car is turbo so I love the torque too.

wanna911

That's why I said all else the same, just looking at preferable power bands. Same car, different motor, same everything else (tires, tranny, gearbox, clutch everything).

Greg Smith

That would be ridiculous to have the same differential in two cars, one of which had a 6100 rpm and the other 8400 rpm. You can't look at it from your perspective, it's not a fair comparison at all.

wanna911

Ok then keep the gear ratios that go with the motors. I dont know them specifically, but the GT3 and C5Z respectively.

Greg Smith

Then you have different transmissions which can change ratio relative to each other with each gear. The fair way to compare them is with gearing that sets them to have the same shift MPH and top speed, which is what I did. The answer is still the same, area under the torque curve of the usable rpm range x gear ratio. Even if we do know the gear ratios, we still don't know the area.

J richard

Not that I want to hand another loaded gun to VR... but just take a look at the audi diesels for an example of how torque helps...that said a gearbox is basically a torque multiplier, so you either produce high horsepower and create torque by reduction through the gearbox, or you produce high torque and create power by multiplying the torque. The fact of the matter is it is easier to produce higher horsepower in a smaller/ligher powerplant than it is to produce big torque numbers, so typically high horsepower usually wins, unless you have a hell of a lot of torque aka audi R10....

FLAME ON!....

A.Wayne

The Audi has other factors that assist it in it's performance , the biggest one being the restrictions on the gasoline powered cars, current rules favor diesel powered cars .
Take away the inlet restrictors that favor a low reving TQ monster like the Audi and there would be no contest...

wanna911

Same shift rpms defeats the purpose of having a high revving motor in the comparison.

Let me pose this as a question then. I'll leave P1 and P2 out of it (Spyder vs R10) because of the different sets of rules. But if you compare GT1 and GT2 I don't think there is one favorable rule for the GT2 class at all. Street chassis, smaller brakes, tires, less aero, equal or more weight. The GT2 C6R is 2400 lbs has 590 hp and 630 lb ft to go with all those advantages compared to last years RSR at 465 hp and 317 ft lbs.

So if you raised the power on the RSR to 590 hp and kept the same ratio of torque (68% which would put the RSR at 400 lb ft) and put the Corvette on a street chassis and eliminated all of the other advantages could the Ferrari's and RSR's and BMW's beat the GT1 cars? They are mostly 2-4 seconds slower at most tracks.

Veloce Raptor

Agree with all of this.