DJF1

Well said

gums

I have to admit that it wasn't the sexy avatars that I minded, I was even guilty of encouraging it, but I found VR's constantly flipping the bird and a few others far more offensive. I'd have booted him for those.

911vet

It's places like Rennlist where we, as fee citizens, prove we do NOT need "thought police," majority rules, and endless guidelines. We only need mutual respect. That must extend to the moderators who I still say, have an impossible task. One they do with a measure of tolerance I do not personally possess.

I'm as crude and rude as anyone on here. I even enjoy pornography (gasp!). But I know that a forum about Porsches isn't an appropriate place for it.

Seems the members that were asked to change their avatars and language (?) were over the line. I would think they knew it. I went over the line on Rennlist once. I recognized it and I went on a SELF-IMPOSED ban. I came back when I was ready to talk about cars again.

MPD47: You're right... that 38D avatar was on here forever. Why? Because we didn't say, "hey dude, we'd be happier looking at your awesome D-class racer." I never complained to him or a moderator. Not once. I remained silent.

And sometimes silence is the greatest offense of all.

I, for one, really like to look at and talk about Porsches. I admit it, I am biased: The lines of a 911 turn me on more than the lines of a naked woman.

To the moderators: People will come and go. But this place remains a gathering of friends. I can't replace it. And the ones who chose to leave... they won't be able to either. So, Bonnie, don't you dare leave!

Mikelly

It's a tough balancing act for the staffs of most well sorted boards...

...I for one think there should be a balance that would allow "reasonable" adult content, such as a PG13-ish guideline. That does away with concerns over softcore, and also allows people the ability to remain adults and have a little fun.

One thing I've hated about this site since joining is the absolute blood baths that have been allowed over and over for years when new person comes in and posts their experiences... Allowing the "Senior staff" the ability to gutt the poor hapless person like some fish never seemed reasonable or acceptable to me.

I said it in the "rules" forum above, and I will say it here... It's very hard to balance the rules for all members, but the greater good has to be found for the largest population. The admins really have a tough job and don't get paid to do it. Give them a break...

Mike

aeshultz

Hey;
I think we all need to get back to driving - this stuff will pass. Unfortunately, it's 36 degrees and raining sideways......
But thanks to the Mods regardless. We know what you go through, and none of this should be personal.

911vet

+1 I'm with ya. We got a break from winter today. 72 degrees, mostly sunny, and WOO HOO I drove with the top down!

I've got a new set of Recaros and Schroth harnesses to install. I'm dreaming of DE season. Can't wait.

Bob Rouleau

Thanks folks. After all the abuse, this is nice!

Best,

Phokaioglaukos

I'm frankly puzzled at how Rennlist operates. I read in the FAQ that moderators (and I suppose administrators, although I did not see that) may edit posts by others. I can imagine the Rennlist owner thinking that would be a good idea so that libelous or copyright infringing material can be deleted, but is that actually wise? If it were possible to content agnostic, such as ISPs are, there would be less liability, but maybe that doesn't work for a web forum?

I understand the new crackdown on sexy avatars, but it sure would have been nice had the new policy been put in writing (I did not find it in the FAQ) and publicized in advance of its implementation. Maybe even be made a matter of discussion in advance even if not a matter of a poll.

So, just how does Rennlist operate? What are the laws the moderators are supposed to enforce, who makes them and where are they written?

I really do appreciate all that there is at Rennlist, but I'm uncomfortable with the notion that posts may be edited so that something I write may be changed without my permission or even knowledge. As with the GR thread, Rennlist can police itself.

1AS

Personally, I think the moderators performed a disservice to the board. Personal attacks merit more concern than the avatars that were banned. They will succeed in removing the passionate characters from this community, ultimately sapping enthusiasm and interest.
Has anybody been to Italy? Would you take your kids? If so, then you can't drive in traffic and see a billboard. The standards imposed here are arbitrary, personal, and transitory. The mods should be smarter. AS

SundayDriver

The new guidelines (mostly clarifications of the TOS with some changes) we posted in a new forum, just for that purpose. There was (and still is an announcement at the top of every forum, including this one. I posted a discussion thread about the guidelines hoping that folks here might want to chat about them and understand them better. I did not make it sticky as we already had the notice that was sticky. You will find that a few pages back because with 140+ views, there was not a single person who seemed to want to discuss it. Also, realize that the Terms of Service was agreed to by everyone here when they signed up and available online if you car to find them. So there is the notification AND opportunity to discuss.

Editing posts - this is needed on a board - an ISP does not host content, they just pass it through. Spam (attempts to sell stuff), scams, porno, copyright violations as well as offensive language and personal attacks need to be removed. Moderators try to not change the content of a valid post that simply contains a part that is a no-no.

You may think that Rennlist can self-police and you use the GR thread as an example. Sorry but that is way off the mark. The GR thread was before I was a mod, but I know there was a lot of moderator activity there. GR was even banned, then banished to a dedicated and heavily moderated forum and then banned for good. There have been hundreds and hundreds of 'users' banned, mostly spam, scams and porno and probably thousands and thousands of posts deleted, not to mention the thousands that have been edited to remove obscenities, objectionable content, copyright violations, etc. I think that the fact you believe that Rennlist self polices is a testament to the mods in keeping all that garbage off the site.

This post of yours contain nothing objectionable, but consider if it had included copyrighted materials, as an example. I could remove the materials, thus editing your post and add a comment and/or send you a PM. I could leave it and send you a PM asking that you remove it, but that is extra work for the mod and, having tried that, most do not respond. Or I could have completely deleted your post, eliminating both the copyrighted material that violated the TOS and your valuable content. I think the former is a far better way of operating. As far as I am aware, the only times a mod has actually changed content is for a rare joke and only with a few users who have both been around a long time and shown that they are joksters.

Hope this helped answer your questions.

Mikelly

ALthough I agree that the personal attacks should have been and should always be a bigger issue, I can understand the concern for the "content" in the avatars, as well as the adult content posts... People have concerns about viewing this content at work, around others, and these issues are of reasonable concern and covered in the rules.

Just because you "pay" and "become a member" doesn't mean the rules don't apply. Read the rules to get a better understanding of what the issues are. That's the real problem...

Now, I said it before, and I'll say it again... Some "expert" on track day edicate, who has been on rennlist for a decade shouldn't be able to flame or insult members who come here to post and learn. I don't care WHO they are, if a long time member blasts a new person for posting "I want to swap to hoosiers", that member should be SHUT DOWN. Do we know the experience level of the new to rennlist member? NO. Giving advice is different than flaming someone... And there's been a lot of that BS for quite a while.

Mike

Bonster

You have a few options, Pedro . . .

A. Go buy a box of Kleenex (or similar) since your team did not make it to the BCS bowl.

B. Get your own material.

C. Gripe to the mods or admins (but not to me personally, as it would be a conflict of interest, obviously).

D. Be quiet and quit trying to stir the pot that no longer even exists.

Or preferrably . . .

E. ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Have a nice day.

1AS

The point is that in the instances cited here, the "punishment" was for an infraction that is based on an arbitrary and poorly defined PERSONAL opinion of propriety. In reality, this board is supported by ADULT participants, and is dependent upon those ADULT participants for their contribution to content.
When volunteer moderators begin to censor that content based upon undefinable criteria, free participation is impaired. More importantly, the most interesting contributors are excised.
This board needs VR, MTosi, and more like them. Instead of a spanking, they should be encouraged to participate. In fact. they should beg VR's return.
It is pointless to cite "65,000" memebers as Bob R. did, without recognizing that it is the participation of those members that is most important, and the mods just eliminated one of the best participants they could have dreamed up.
Nobody has to be here. Make it boring enough, and nobody will be here. AS

Flying Finn

A question (to moderators or to anyone):

The person(s) who had problem with 38D's avatar, were the member(s) who had joined Rennlist recently (say, during the last 2 years or so) or older members?

Just curious.

Bonster

Alexander . . . honestly, BULL. Those rules were in place long before you, me or anyone else may have griped about them. It is what is is. I adore Dave (VR) and he darn well knows it. Which is why it is so darn hard to defend his posting of a bonafide HARD CORE **** SITE URL. Cut folks some slack. Sheesh. Dave . . . why don't you just have a private email list or something, where you can share this stuff. You know better, you stinker. And all of you that love Dave as I do, YOU know better, too, so KNOCK THIS JUNK OFF.

Finn . . . same thing, 'cept I guess nobody worked at it til now. Don't ya just hate it when the rules are enforced? Believe me, I know I do. Lol.

Now then . . . I hope all is settled. It's a no-brainer, these here rules that have been around for some time already. Instead of jumping down the throats of the ones trying to keep Rennlist as it originally once, how about you all READ THE RULES that were here from its inception?

Love and hugs, as always, and HAPPY FLIPPIN' NEW YEAR!!!