Tim Comeau

AJCJR,
My brother is up in Maine and he's got an 87 924S that is nearly race ready. He also has a 944 out here in San Diego. He's worked with me during the winters for several years now so he knows the cars pretty well. He's into it and he's gathering people around him to start up a 944 Spec group in the northeast.
Please PM me with your contact info and I'll get you together.

Tim Comeau
Comeau Racing Enterprises, Inc.

Ernie J

Gee, after 2 years of spec up here, We have just converted 6 cars to CUP. Big reason , the hoosier tires last as long as the 888 toyo's in our opinion. Cup is not big bucks, Bill Comat and I switched the Spec cars to Cup, same engines, same suspension, same trans, different wheels and Hoosiers and placed 1st and 2nd at the nationals, 1st in GTS just added some weight(fuel). Best of luck in 09. Just thought you might want to know whats going on in the great white north.

aeshultz

Yeah, but Bill (and Ernie) can drive!
And don't kid yourself - those two cars are full-on pro-built, no expense, to-the-letter-of-the-law beautiful race cars. With drivers like Bill and Ernie, they'd win in whatever class they ran in.

Sterling Doc

Ernie, I love ya, but I've got to call a little BS here!

You drove 2 very diffferent cars in Spec & Cup at Nationals, and you make the differences sound trivial.

15x9" custom wheels and 275 Hoosiers are just not in the same ballpark as a set of $200 OEM wheels & 225 R-888's.


The motors may be the same basic 2.5L 4's, but a custom chip, headers, and dyno tune time add up. While I don't know what else specifically was done to the Cup car motor, it's making more power than just a chip & a header would allow. If you guys were making Spec power levels, there would be no need to add ballast to GTS-1 pwr/wt. (I've cruched the numbers many times).

When you have your own shop, these things may seem simple, but to someone on there own, they're significant.

Lets also look at Nationals lap times to help make the point.

You & I both ran in the 1:46.8 range in Spec.

Just like last year, I bolted on stiickier tires (245 Hoosiers this year) & bigger wheels to run in a second class. Just like last year, they were worth nearly 2 Sec per lap - got me to 1:44.9 - pretty good for just a set of tires.

You recorded a 1:43.6 sec lap in your Cup car - well over 3 sec per lap faster than in your Spec car, on the same day. That's more than just bolting on some wheels & tires.

Cup is a successful series well suited to innovators like yourself, Ernie.
Spec's rules present a much smaller "box" to work in - which can be good, or bad depending on your preference, but it's clearly different. It's not an inovators class (says so in the rules!), but it is a drivers class, where budget racers can aspire to compete & win at the highest levels, without breaking the bank.

I applaud Michael for giving compettive, but budget minded racers another option out East. We have great success, attracting *new* racers in the Midwest, and West to Spec, and I expect Michael will do the same over the next 2-3 years.

JerryW

PCA already accepts both Cup and Spec as SP1 SP2 and SP3.
They are ALL good classes to run in depending on your needs/wants. It's great that another option is being offered in more NASA regions. There is no need to run one or the other down (even if unintentional).

APKhaos

^ + 1 [at least]

Lets knock off this religious zealotry, OK?

944Cup has been running strong since 2002. That's six race seasons. It consistently draws the largest field of any race series in NASA Mid Atlantic, and new series are popping up all over:
- Mid-Atlantic
- Southeast
- Florida Suncoast
- Northeast
- Great Lakes
- Northwest
- Canada

Its good to have another option, of course, and there are plenty of examples of drivers who have run both. Ernie and the Canada crew moved from Spec to Cup. 6 cars. Its indefensible and unnecessary to come on here and call him a BSer. Guys will move between series, and that's fine. So please knock it off with the defensive rubbish, and the proselytizing. Its good that there's another choice. Drivers will make there own call on which series better suits their needs by looking at the specs and who is running in the series. That's the way it always done.

I can run my car in 944SuperCup and PCA Club Racing. To my knowledge, nobody here or elsewhere has tried to convince me or anyone else in the same position that one is 'better' than the other, because there simply isn't a general case to be made one way or the other. Please stop trying to convince the world that there is.

JerryW

Tony -- I'll also point out those who were saying "No need for Spec as Cup is great on the East coast"

It goes both ways --
But we are all 944 Racers together !

mcmmotorsports

I would first like to apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way or started a thread that has been debated over and over again. That was NOT my intention. Let the truth be known that I really thought that animosity between racing series only existed in the Stock Car world hence the reason I got out of it. Here I am trying to inform others that there is another option now available here on the east coast and it is hit with opposition. While I am somewhat baffled as to why, I can only hope that moving forward all Porsche enthusiasts can unite and make the sport we all love very much strive and become stronger with every race car that hits the track regardless as to what banner it falls under. With that said, anyone and everyone is welcome to come out and run with us in 944-SPEC and I can only hope that everyone will give this series a chance. I can promise you won't be disappointed, frustrated or outrun by someones ability to outspend you. Racing is all about having fun...PERIOD! If it isn't fun than you have no business doing it. I have wasted too many years of my life racing and not having fun doing it. I have finally found the formula how to fix that problem and it is spelled 944-SPEC.

Ernie J

Gee struck a nerve there, Doc, other than a couple bolt-on items the Cup car started life as a Spec Car. Yes, some turning = Cup. The Spec car I ran only had 2 races on it and not developed. Also, had full tread 888's on as You well know. Wish Spec all the best in 2009, just wanted to point out the cars not all that different. The spec engine vs the cup engine were only 4 hp different.

Sterling Doc

Tony, please reread my post. I have no beef with Cup on this, or Ernie being in Cup. No BS there! In fact I think it fits innovators like Ernie well - as I stated in my post. I also agree/stated Cup is successful, and I agree with Jerry's post completely, as you do.

I take issue with the assertion that the those out East should not have an option to develop/run a Spec class b/c Cup is already there [as Jerry pointed out]. The classes are different, on many levels, from the build to passing rules to the National Championship. My post was in response to those issues, and to the specific implication by Ernie that a Spec car won Nationals in Cup with minor, cheap mods - that is what I called out. This is not a Crusade, just making more clear what level of prep is required for a nationally competitive car. This way people can make an informed decision, and let indivduals sort it out from there, based on their preferences, cost vs. performance.

I think we can all agree that each of these classes have been successful, for reasons that are often unique to the respective class. Live & let live .

Let's bring this back on topic to welcoming Michael & Spec racers to the SE.


Addendum:

The three posts above came in while I was typing the above, and are well put (man I hope I drive faster than I type!). Ernie, if you don't mind me asking, what horsepower did your Spec & Cup car make, and where can find the wheel set-up you had? I may be interested in those wheels/tires for when I double-stint in GTS at Nationals next year. Ernie, you didn't shave the second set of R-888's set you ran in the Championship race? I could have sworn you went out on stickers for that last race? I offered you a shaved set of my own R-888's to run for free when you only had the RA-1's - should have taken me up on it! It was great racing with you in any case - between you & Bill I learned a lot about racecraft in the last two Championships!

North Coast Cab

If Spec ran Hoosiers the gap would close dramatically, with only a nominal cost difference. Give weight penalties for chips and headers and now you have one huge class.

Sterling Doc

Ignoring the difference in passing rules, you then have a 2,700 Spec car. It's not in the nature of racers to be satisfied with a "smaller gap"

We could all run GTS-1, and there would be an even bigger class.

mcmmotorsports

Give racers a big box to play in, they find a way to play outside the box.
Give racers a small box to play in, they can't move their arms enough to get out.

I will take rule #2 any day after seeing what I have seen in racing over the past 15+ years.

Ernie J

Doc, 139 hp spec and NASA spent sometime with some trick stuff to check CR and displacment, throttle body, ecu chip. add 5 hp of Cup. Would have been nice just to use up Ra1's, instead of buying two sets of 888's. used once each now.By the way I am building a Super Cup 944 for 2009.

Sterling Doc

Tough to bend the rules at Nationals - I've got a set of nice RA-1's sitting around as well (will sell cheap if anyone's interested).

Cool, I need R-888's, as I sold all of mine with the late-offset blue car. New car is early offset. I'll take the two sets of R-888's - shaved & fell tread off your hands for 1K shipped if your interested.

I'm laying odds on you for SuperCup next year - don't let me down!