Hi all,
Last year in Europe there was a series created called Cayman Cup which was run with Cayman S GT4 spec cars. Almost stock, with only a cage, you could take some weight out and a few safety features. None of the stuff done was 1 way which mean that you could always bring the car back to street spec and still have a very nice car. After racing with Cup and RS/RSR cars at very significant expense, I was wondering 1) if a series like that already exists here and 2) if not, who would be interested if it existed. looking at the amount of Cayman S sitting on dealers' lots, looks like we have a bargain racing series and season for really cheap... Now, we'd have to make sure not to go to very hight hp track or some of the fun would be taken away but I think that this could be lots of fun - there was an article in the French magazine, Flat 6 about a year ago.
JM

 

All good. People are trying to get spec series going with even cheaper Boxsters and 996s.

 

Yep, we've talked about a Spec Cayman for the future but donors really need to be sub $20k before people start getting really interested. Taking one at the current level & building it into something similar to our Spec Box cars puts you in 996 cup territory so it's a tough sell. We are up to around 40 cars nationally on the Boxs & going strong.

 

Yeah, I think we're at least 5 years away from CaySpec. The cars are just too expensive right now. You could build a Boxster Spec or even a 996 Spec for the price of a donor car (or less in the case of a BSR).

 

Unfortunately I'd have to agree with the majority opinion here.
It's a great platform and will be a great spec class but we just have to wait a few years.
I looked at the Cayman Cup info both from France and Italy and I liked what i saw but think it would benefit from allowing more dedicated changes (i.e. one way...)

JM check out the Boxster Spec website at:
http://www.boxsterspecracing.org/hom...?location=home

I believe the specs were adopted by PCA recently and this should allow the development of more cars in other parts of the country besides the West coast & Tx.

 

Thanks to all for the feedback. Spec Boxster sounds really interesting.
JM

 

Yeah,
SpecCayman is a perfect spec series. However not right now. Cars are too new to be cost effective. Spec boxster is much better since short of the roof they are very similar cars. However the boxsters are cheaper in donor form.

 

Like Eddie said, come on over to BoxsterSpec.com when you get a chance. We've got a pretty active group over there.

We are seeing donors in the $ 9-10k range on a pretty regular basis which puts a build @ under $ 30k if you do everything but the cage yourself & farm that out. Operating costs are LOW, stupid low compared to my 3 years of running my Cup! We get 2-3 weekends out of tires right now but are looking at going to a square tire size like Spec 944. If that passes, we should get another weekend out of them. That will put tire cost around $ 250 per weekend. The cars are easy on brakes as well since we are light. Speed wise, they are about the equivalent of a Euro SC running in E class. We give up some to them due to power on the long tracks but on the short ones we have a slight advantage due to handling. The cars are VERY tossable & a blast to drive. No horsepower as a crutch though, you have to actually drive them well to go fast.

 

Jay:

I like the Boxster Spec concept. I cannot really understand the interest in 996 spec. Karl Poeltl (Racer's Edge) is building 996's for I stock and the costs for a front-running I stock car isn't that much more than a 996 spec car.

What are your thoughts?

Did you sell your Cup Car?

David

 

David,
Karl builds an outstanding car & he is very fast. My biggest problem with letter cars is they aren't spec so you have to compete with all kinds of developments on car types other then yours & they have to weigh to damn much. Weight is EVERYTHING & is the main reason our little 180hp Boxsters perform so well. It affects everything(acceleration, braking & handling) not to mention lowering your consumable costs.

The build cost for a 996 Spec should be about the same as the Box. Donor cost should be the only difference($20k vs. 10). That would put a 996Spec @ around $40k. Besides the weight, you are competing in a conforming platform that puts more emphasis on a driver's ability then his checkbook. They also are going to run Toyos like we do so they should get 2-3 weekends out of a set of tires & avoid the Hoosier tire war that rules the stock classes. Hoosiers can go that long too but they are fastest in the early cycles which means to run up front you are buying tires every weekend. The Toyos are consistent so we run them 'til they die. On top of that, Toyo pays us Toyo Bucks contingency so some weekends my tire cost is nil. It's cheap entertainment. We are spending DE money for wheel-to-wheel, equal, spec racing & having a great time!

I did sell the Cup. It was a great ride & I recommend the experience highly. I had three good years but the operating costs increased by about 35%, mainly during '07, so it started taking the edge off. I started worrying too much about whether race weekends were "worth" it or not. I can run the Box for a season for the cost of a Daytona or Road America weekend in the Cup. The only thing I worry about now is whether I have time to race not whether it's worth it or not. Plus, the cars are a blast to drive especially with the group we have developed down here.

 

My 996 Spec is coming in right at $40k with a cage, and I overpaid on the donor car, so Jay's exactly right. The rules, which are evolving right at this moment will hopefully be set up so it's not really possible to buy your way to a podium.

FWIW, having driven Jay's, the BSR cars are a ton of fun to drive. The 996's will be too, with a little more grunt, and with the rear engine weight distribution to have fun with.

 

except in the tight stuff, then I got your number bucko

PS: I swore the 911 was IT. Heck, I've had enough of them BUT this mid-engine stuff ain't bad! My next big project will be the Super Boxster. We can get one down to 2,200 Lbs. or so, Jake Raby is building 400 horse motors & most Cupcar suspension bits are bolt on. My wheels are turning.....

 

If I ever learn to drive, we'll see about that.

 

Guys,
There are a few thing behind spec classes. Cost is just one factor.

The beauty of a spec class is that in theory any way, the cars are quite equal. Equal not just in lap times, but in nearly every aspect. Peak power, Power curve, braking performance, turn in, corner exit, ulitmate grip etc.

All the cup cars are in fact spec cars. So a 996 spec is in fact a 996 GT3 Cup car. It is just that the factory made them and set the "spec" at a certain level.

What controls cost in a spec class is firstly development. When you have a tight set of rules development is limited so you don't need to spend thousands just to get a car close. 90% of the speed is there with bolts ons or simple easly to understand mods. Now of course that that 10% of the speed takes tweaking.

The next big factor is the donor car. The more expensive/powerfull the donor car that more money it will take. After that is the spec level. How much money is the suspenion? wheels? Tires. etc.

When it comes to operating costs tires are the biggest role.

So getting back to the this debate.

So what makes a spec class work.

1) Competition
2) Value

Competition is a chicken vs egg thing. Good competition breeds more competition, however getting the ball rolling is hard.

So we turn to Value as being the key.

How much fun and speed can a driver get from XXXX up front cost and XXX per event costs? That is the key to club level spec classes.

944 spec took off because drivers soon learn how much fun it was to drive cheap 944 and still be on a budget. When it comes to really cheap cars like the 944 they lack hp and gaining speed through fancy tires gets really expensive as percentage of the initial cost.

The problem before 944 spec was where could you race a 944 competitively for a low cost. PCA really the only place since in SCCA IT there were, and still are legal, but only competitive after much engine work. So you went PCA Stock class racing, but were stuck dragging around the interior, running the car at full weight and needing to buy expensive hoosiers to keep up with the Joneses. Not ideal not even considering the 911's running around as well.

So along comes 944 spec with rule designed to optmize the performance/dollar ratio of the 944 NA platform while keeping them equal. What do you get? Well cars that are similar in speed to PCA cars, but run lower weight on simpler suspensions with a cheaper wheel/tire package to lower operating costs. Along the way things "pinned" camberplates get ditched in favor of real rules made for a 944 not a 911. Over the years it has proven to be a good formula.

spec boxster evovled from the same mold. Built a set of rules around the boxster strengths and weaknesses in an effort to maximize the performance/cost ratio for that platform. Before spec boxster racing boxster were quite limited in numbers. There were common in DE, but at a racing level they were never the value they needed to be. However spec boxster had the freedom to optmize the regulations to do make the best boxsters at a modeterate price point.

The issue with the cayman is that donor cars are just too expensive right now. It is likely that much of what has been lerned on the boxster effort will transfer to the cayman, but donor cars need to be cheaper to make that happen. Now one way to make it happen is for Porsche to step in and "support" the series like Mazada does with MX-5 or something. Still I don't see that happening.

The issue with 996 spec is two fold. First is 996 GT3's which are in effect really nice 996 spec cars and PCA classing. Where is the balance of prep that create the value difference to seperate 996 spec from a PCA 996 I car from a 996 GT3 cup? And for that mater what makes them justified over the cost of a spec boxster. The boxster can be justified over the 944 due to speed partialy, but mostly due to age. Lets face it 944's are old cars these days. The issue with 996 spec is how much faster are they vs spec boxsters and how much more are guys willing to spend. Right now you see GT3 cup guys ditching their cups for boxsters and others getting boxster to go along. Cost is clearly less for the boxster and the speed is sufficent. If you save 10-15% by going 996 spec is that really enough over a cup car?

Tough questions.

 

All great points and ultimately it comes down to what people go racing for. The 996 Cup in the UK, Germany, France and Supercup are unbelievably expensive to run. The reason being that in spec cars are so close in performance that the difference is made by making 0.05 sec gains in 4 or 5 places... that adds up to 2 tens... In the UK cup series, people change pads EVERY race, ditto for rotors, then clutches, driveshafts etc get changed a LOT. We came to the conclusion that it was more expensive to run a Cup series in the UK than an endurance series across Europe, even with the cost of tyres and engine/gearbox hours.
I've done the top level racing in Europe and I can't afford it ever again (or don't want to...) what I'm looking for now is a fun series where I'll enjoy beers with the guys after as much as the racing itself, where I can prep my own car which for me is fun, and where I don't need to buy new tyres for each session etc.
Sounds like the spec boxster class could be it..
JM