defNder, new H&N
12-15-2008, 02:11 PM
#106
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Any safety device needs to be a part of a whole. The sled tests only prove that if you are in an offset Church Pew Wreck you should skip the Hans. The less sensitive to the whole the parts are the better. I seem remember that in one thread a good while back this came up. Seems the Hans poped out on one side but only after soaking up enough energy to produce good "numbers" (This might have been in a frontal I can't search well from this computer).
Given all the back and forth it looks like the go to right now, Defender aside is the R3. It looks to be is less sensitive to the rest of the system and passes the evil SFI 38.1. What are the downsides to the R3 for most people?
Why do I get the feeling that H&D will be making something that looks like the Defender and the Hans had kids in a year or two?
Given all the back and forth it looks like the go to right now, Defender aside is the R3. It looks to be is less sensitive to the rest of the system and passes the evil SFI 38.1. What are the downsides to the R3 for most people?
Why do I get the feeling that H&D will be making something that looks like the Defender and the Hans had kids in a year or two?
12-15-2008, 02:32 PM
#107
.
...It's a very good device, but IMHO it's not everything it's made out to be.
H&D 'jumped the shark' a while ago and it's now become a marketing driven business, again IMHO.
My primary concern is the achilles heel in the design (coming out from under the belts in an off axis hit), if not properly acknowledged and addressed (double shoulder belts, full containment seat, etc) , will lead to an injury that may have been avoided.
Nothing singled out against the HANS, but most designs have similar issues..it is the nature of design and the laws of physics.
It is becoming a common conception that just 'putting on a HANS device' is the answer. No, it is part of the answer.
...It's a very good device, but IMHO it's not everything it's made out to be.
H&D 'jumped the shark' a while ago and it's now become a marketing driven business, again IMHO.
My primary concern is the achilles heel in the design (coming out from under the belts in an off axis hit), if not properly acknowledged and addressed (double shoulder belts, full containment seat, etc) , will lead to an injury that may have been avoided.
Nothing singled out against the HANS, but most designs have similar issues..it is the nature of design and the laws of physics.
It is becoming a common conception that just 'putting on a HANS device' is the answer. No, it is part of the answer.
I'm happy with R3, unfortunately had a chance to test it and it works!
My .02c
12-15-2008, 02:43 PM
#108
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Any safety device needs to be a part of a whole. The sled tests only prove that if you are in an offset Church Pew Wreck you should skip the Hans. The less sensitive to the whole the parts are the better. I seem remember that in one thread a good while back this came up. Seems the Hans poped out on one side but only after soaking up enough energy to produce good "numbers" (This might have been in a frontal I can't search well from this computer).
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...t-results.html
"What's more, rest assured we have never published our best results. Why? We figure that providing typical results is simply the best way of presenting safety products to racers"
I wonder what their 'worst' results look like? I have a funny feeling I know. It's nice that you don't have to report every test result....I believe that's called 'filtering' or 'cherry picking'.
Given all the back and forth it looks like the go to right now, Defender aside is the R3. It looks to be is less sensitive to the rest of the system and passes the evil SFI 38.1. What are the downsides to the R3 for most people?
Why do I get the feeling that H&D will be making something that looks like the Defender and the Hans had kids in a year or two?
Why do I get the feeling that H&D will be making something that looks like the Defender and the Hans had kids in a year or two?
http://www.lfttech.com/cgi-bin/Item....ShowItem&id=79
Or the Hybrid X (designed for improved side impact protection):
http://www.lfttech.com/cgi-bin/Item....ShowItem&id=84
12-15-2008, 02:50 PM
#109
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The R3 Head and neck restraint device is a device for protecting race car drivers in the event of an accident by controlling head movement, reducing head and neck injuries due to whiplash. It consists of a carbon fiber cross which is worn like a vest. The cross goes against the drivers back and Kevlar straps hold it on. These are clipped at the front. The top of the cross has straps which attach with clips to the helmet.
The R3 has passed SFI 38.1 testing and has some of the best angular impact test scores of any Head and Neck Restraints. It hasn't passed the FIA test because that test can only be passed by a HANS device.
Jump to: navigation, search
The R3 Head and neck restraint device is a device for protecting race car drivers in the event of an accident by controlling head movement, reducing head and neck injuries due to whiplash. It consists of a carbon fiber cross which is worn like a vest. The cross goes against the drivers back and Kevlar straps hold it on. These are clipped at the front. The top of the cross has straps which attach with clips to the helmet.
The R3 has passed SFI 38.1 testing and has some of the best angular impact test scores of any Head and Neck Restraints. It hasn't passed the FIA test because that test can only be passed by a HANS device.
12-15-2008, 02:52 PM
#110
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It's easy to get 100's on your exams when you get to write them.
12-15-2008, 03:20 PM
#111
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IIRC, there is no test in the FIA spec. No performance is required.
12-15-2008, 03:26 PM
#112
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Or the Hybrid X (designed for improved side impact protection):
http://www.lfttech.com/cgi-bin/Item....ShowItem&id=84
http://www.lfttech.com/cgi-bin/Item....ShowItem&id=84
IIRC the head movement is extremely limited and I believe that one of my conversations with the guys at Safety Solutions said that the device should only be used in drag racing where they don't have to look to the side for anything.
It's a really nice device though and it will definitely keep your head attached to the body.
12-15-2008, 04:18 PM
#113
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Just read about the lawsuit by HANS against the manufacturer of the defndr.
See Autoweek
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081215/FREE/812159974
See Autoweek
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081215/FREE/812159974
12-15-2008, 06:41 PM
#114
Nordschleife Master
Just read about the lawsuit by HANS against the manufacturer of the defndr.
See Autoweek
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081215/FREE/812159974
See Autoweek
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081215/FREE/812159974
12-16-2008, 01:35 AM
#117
12-16-2008, 07:53 AM
#118
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FWIW, when the R3 first came out, it was mentioned that it could be used for karting (since karts don't have belts nor cages....at least not proper sprint karts)
AFAIK and saw, no one ever used them, due to the fiberglass seats and the spinal protection part of the R3 being a fitment/comfort issue.
The Leatt brace is becoming the de facto alternative to a foam neck collar (ironically, Leatt originally had zero interest in karting, only motocross. That has changed and now has a karting dealer network and has become a sponsor of the IRL Snap on Stars Of Karting Series)
However, IIRC, there are a few members of this forum who have made the R3 work in their cars and also wear them while instructing (with a 3 point).
AFAIK and saw, no one ever used them, due to the fiberglass seats and the spinal protection part of the R3 being a fitment/comfort issue.
The Leatt brace is becoming the de facto alternative to a foam neck collar (ironically, Leatt originally had zero interest in karting, only motocross. That has changed and now has a karting dealer network and has become a sponsor of the IRL Snap on Stars Of Karting Series)
However, IIRC, there are a few members of this forum who have made the R3 work in their cars and also wear them while instructing (with a 3 point).
12-16-2008, 08:40 AM
#119
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I would definitely be after an R3 if the DE/instructing route were where I was going...
OTOH, since a low-profile lay-down (or at least, well-reclined) formula car/sports racer is where I'm going - I doubt the R3 would work in that environment. Do they have anything other than vertical/straight braces?
Still, it seems to be an also-ran to the HANS, ISAAC, and deFender... so I'd have trouble going for one of those. I am interested to hear just how well a deFender would work in a fairly flat car; don't have to sign up for a new device just yet, but sure it's on the horizon...
OTOH, since a low-profile lay-down (or at least, well-reclined) formula car/sports racer is where I'm going - I doubt the R3 would work in that environment. Do they have anything other than vertical/straight braces?
Still, it seems to be an also-ran to the HANS, ISAAC, and deFender... so I'd have trouble going for one of those. I am interested to hear just how well a deFender would work in a fairly flat car; don't have to sign up for a new device just yet, but sure it's on the horizon...
12-16-2008, 08:57 AM
#120
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I would definitely be after an R3 if the DE/instructing route were where I was going...
OTOH, since a low-profile lay-down (or at least, well-reclined) formula car/sports racer is where I'm going - I doubt the R3 would work in that environment. Do they have anything other than vertical/straight braces?
Still, it seems to be an also-ran to the HANS, ISAAC, and deFender... so I'd have trouble going for one of those. I am interested to hear just how well a deFender would work in a fairly flat car; don't have to sign up for a new device just yet, but sure it's on the horizon...
OTOH, since a low-profile lay-down (or at least, well-reclined) formula car/sports racer is where I'm going - I doubt the R3 would work in that environment. Do they have anything other than vertical/straight braces?
Still, it seems to be an also-ran to the HANS, ISAAC, and deFender... so I'd have trouble going for one of those. I am interested to hear just how well a deFender would work in a fairly flat car; don't have to sign up for a new device just yet, but sure it's on the horizon...
An FF2000 Pro Series driver just picked an R3 up at PRI and should be giving feedback. However if the Swift you picked up is anything like some of the others I've sat in they are pretty reclined even for a formula car.
Sidenote, at teh Stars of Karting event at PRI, only 1 junior driver used a Leatt. 3 Masters drivers did. A few foam collars and lots of exposed necks.