ltc

It would appear as though they've done a LOT of testing on the Leatt Moto R (a.k.a. the Toilet Seat H&N restraint) relative to the data presented for the other devices.

Both Delphi and WSU sleds referenced.

For professional analysis, I would suggest contacting gbaker.

ltc

A bit OT, but if price is a primary consideration, there are used HANS devices on eBay quite often.

Here is a pro series (CF) currently at $150.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Raci...3A1|240%3A1318

jgrant

Personally, I'd NEVER buy something like that used, never mind off eBay.

It wasn't too long ago that there was a guy on eBay selling fibreglass copies of HANS devices that he was making himself.

Anything that is key in saving my life, I'm not buying used over the internet. But maybe that's just me.

Greg Smith

^Fixed. Take everything that guy says with a grain of salt.

Circuit Motorsports

Here's the other catch, it's not a Pro series, it's an extra. The Pro anchors come with it, but the pads are the ones that come with the extra. Also it's a 10 degree which explains it's low price still.

924RACR

That chart is a very good starting point - too bad it doesn't have more detail filled in for the HANS and ISAAC both. As as come up previously, head-on numbers for the ISAAC seem to be hard to get or nonexistent; while it does appear to have some advantages over the HANS in the oblique hit, we lack a direct comparison head-on for the 0 degree hit. I believe ISAAC/Gregg Baker's statement in the past has been that they see no benefit in performing the (expensive) test, since they know they will pass; they prefer to focus on the 30-degree oblique hit. Expecting also that they would out-perform the HANS in an oblique, it would seem to make sense from that perspective too.

The neck flexion and extension #'s for the ISAAC surprise and concern me.

Equally disappointing is that there are no Nij numbers shown there for the HANS, though I think they can be found elsewhere?

Back to the Defender - the few numbers that are posted seem to put up some very stout competition, especially considering that it's a 38.1-compliant device that also has a lateral capability...

ltc

I simply put it out there since some people would consider buying a used HANS and perhaps sending it to H&D for recertification (if necessary) and/or inspection, simply due to budget.

ltc

I would have to disagree somewhat.

I've spoken to gbaker on occasion. He is very passionate about H&N restraint and driver safety. Yes, he is associated with a product (ISAAC) and has had to deal with some of the politics behind SFI 38.1 and H&D, but I don't think that disqualifies him from providing insight and analysis that the majority of forum members lack.

RedlineMan

+Infinity;

Gregg has offered TONS of useful information and insight that we railbirds would never have otherwise. Where else can you get it from? H&D? Ha!

If he were not passionate about his work, and frustrated with the politics that have hampered that success, I'd think him a bit odd. Any bias he has shown is probably countered evenly by those who throw stones out of pure instinct. I find it is more effective to shut up and weigh everything - filtering out what is extraneous to the point - instead of shooting off my mouth on things I know nothing about.

I've learned a lot from GBaker (both here and privately), and I'm glad he has put up with the hecklers and stuck around. You should all be happy too!

RedlineMan

Interesting;

The HANS and defNder work on slightly different principles, it seems to me. The HANS is activated via surface friction, largely staying in it's original position relative to the belts, where the defNder appears to use mechanical means, being hooked under the belts at the top instead. If I'm right in that the defNder appears to act more as a lever, I wonder about chest loading. IF the defNder worked on similar friction principles to the HANS (to some degree), I'd think it a lot more likely to run afoul of patent concerns, but also to be more effective as a result.

What I'd really like to see is the table Sean posted, except with FULL info. Too many holes and, not enough overlap for me. Anybody got a few hundred grand lying around to see this through?

GT3CAR

Well, looks like the Defnder is coming online this Thursday. I am going to buy one and try it out at Daytona this weekend. I will let you know what I think and I will take plenty of pics. Hopefully, I will not "testing" it.

Flying Finn

Looks pretty good, very interested in hearing form those who will use it how it is.

Thanks for the heads up, any competition in H&N restraints is good.

gbaker

Some of those numbers are off. We have sent Jim Lill, who is putting together that matrix, the data that was used in the SAE paper 2006-01-3631, so they should be updated in the near future. That data resulted in these graphs.

Jim is a good guy and we applaud his efforts--which would be best served if he stayed away from manufacturers' advertising.

JimLill

I have Gregg's data and I also now have the original SAE papers. I'll be revising my matrix to include the source of the numbers very soon. While some numbers don't align, I don't see anything abjectly off so far. If anyone spots anything, let me know.

JimLill

Here is some other related information...

http://www.trackpedia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4909