2008 Brazilian F1
11-03-2008, 12:30 AM
#241
Formula One Spin Doctor
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Chris and Jim,
I can see where Chris Walord, Pete and others see Lewis "choking". He did everything right today, played it safe, didn't get into any first corner antics, passed others with very careful, calculated moves and did everything a lot of others said he couldn't do.
However, when an unexpected variable was placed before him (the rain with a handful of laps to go) he then felt the pressure, expecially with a young Vettel behind him. A Vettal who has proven that he can race and win in the rain of Monza earlier. Basically Hamilton could not produce under the pressure, and was overtaken when all he needed to do was keep Vettel behind him and he would be World Champ.
What I think they are saying is that Hamilton backed into the WDC, he didn't exactly win it.
I can see where Chris Walord, Pete and others see Lewis "choking". He did everything right today, played it safe, didn't get into any first corner antics, passed others with very careful, calculated moves and did everything a lot of others said he couldn't do.
However, when an unexpected variable was placed before him (the rain with a handful of laps to go) he then felt the pressure, expecially with a young Vettel behind him. A Vettal who has proven that he can race and win in the rain of Monza earlier. Basically Hamilton could not produce under the pressure, and was overtaken when all he needed to do was keep Vettel behind him and he would be World Champ.
What I think they are saying is that Hamilton backed into the WDC, he didn't exactly win it.
The King is Dead , Long live The King
11-03-2008, 12:33 AM
#242
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11-03-2008, 12:42 AM
#243
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from the Times, in the UK. apparently, mcclaren orders were for LH to let vettel pass. they thought they could catch glock:
The McLaren data showed that if Hamilton let Vettel through, even as late as the third lap from the end, there was enough time left to catch Glock, who, alone among the leaders, had not pitted for wet tyres and was struggling as the rain fell on the outlying areas of the circuit.
Vettel duly went by Hamilton and then passed Glock, leaving the Briton in mortal danger of finishing as World Championship runner-up for the second season in a row. But Hamilton kept his nerve as he stole round the final few corners until he was able to move into position to make the pass, which came between Turns 12 and 13, when Massa had already finished.
McLaren’s gamble had paid off and the celebrations could start, led by Hamilton, who almost climbed out of his cockpit to thrust his right hand into the air to salute a crowd that had greeted him with boos and catcalls when he arrived on the grid.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5069249.ece
The McLaren data showed that if Hamilton let Vettel through, even as late as the third lap from the end, there was enough time left to catch Glock, who, alone among the leaders, had not pitted for wet tyres and was struggling as the rain fell on the outlying areas of the circuit.
Vettel duly went by Hamilton and then passed Glock, leaving the Briton in mortal danger of finishing as World Championship runner-up for the second season in a row. But Hamilton kept his nerve as he stole round the final few corners until he was able to move into position to make the pass, which came between Turns 12 and 13, when Massa had already finished.
McLaren’s gamble had paid off and the celebrations could start, led by Hamilton, who almost climbed out of his cockpit to thrust his right hand into the air to salute a crowd that had greeted him with boos and catcalls when he arrived on the grid.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5069249.ece
11-03-2008, 12:47 AM
#245
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from the Times, in the UK. apparently, mcclaren orders were for LH to let vettel pass. they thought they could catch glock:
The McLaren data showed that if Hamilton let Vettel through, even as late as the third lap from the end, there was enough time left to catch Glock, who, alone among the leaders, had not pitted for wet tyres and was struggling as the rain fell on the outlying areas of the circuit.
Vettel duly went by Hamilton and then passed Glock, leaving the Briton in mortal danger of finishing as World Championship runner-up for the second season in a row. But Hamilton kept his nerve as he stole round the final few corners until he was able to move into position to make the pass, which came between Turns 12 and 13, when Massa had already finished.
McLaren’s gamble had paid off and the celebrations could start, led by Hamilton, who almost climbed out of his cockpit to thrust his right hand into the air to salute a crowd that had greeted him with boos and catcalls when he arrived on the grid.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5069249.ece
The McLaren data showed that if Hamilton let Vettel through, even as late as the third lap from the end, there was enough time left to catch Glock, who, alone among the leaders, had not pitted for wet tyres and was struggling as the rain fell on the outlying areas of the circuit.
Vettel duly went by Hamilton and then passed Glock, leaving the Briton in mortal danger of finishing as World Championship runner-up for the second season in a row. But Hamilton kept his nerve as he stole round the final few corners until he was able to move into position to make the pass, which came between Turns 12 and 13, when Massa had already finished.
McLaren’s gamble had paid off and the celebrations could start, led by Hamilton, who almost climbed out of his cockpit to thrust his right hand into the air to salute a crowd that had greeted him with boos and catcalls when he arrived on the grid.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5069249.ece
11-03-2008, 12:56 AM
#246
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from the Times, in the UK. apparently, mcclaren orders were for LH to let vettel pass. they thought they could catch glock:
The McLaren data showed that if Hamilton let Vettel through, even as late as the third lap from the end, there was enough time left to catch Glock, who, alone among the leaders, had not pitted for wet tyres and was struggling as the rain fell on the outlying areas of the circuit.
Vettel duly went by Hamilton and then passed Glock, leaving the Briton in mortal danger of finishing as World Championship runner-up for the second season in a row. But Hamilton kept his nerve as he stole round the final few corners until he was able to move into position to make the pass, which came between Turns 12 and 13, when Massa had already finished.
McLaren’s gamble had paid off and the celebrations could start, led by Hamilton, who almost climbed out of his cockpit to thrust his right hand into the air to salute a crowd that had greeted him with boos and catcalls when he arrived on the grid.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5069249.ece
The McLaren data showed that if Hamilton let Vettel through, even as late as the third lap from the end, there was enough time left to catch Glock, who, alone among the leaders, had not pitted for wet tyres and was struggling as the rain fell on the outlying areas of the circuit.
Vettel duly went by Hamilton and then passed Glock, leaving the Briton in mortal danger of finishing as World Championship runner-up for the second season in a row. But Hamilton kept his nerve as he stole round the final few corners until he was able to move into position to make the pass, which came between Turns 12 and 13, when Massa had already finished.
McLaren’s gamble had paid off and the celebrations could start, led by Hamilton, who almost climbed out of his cockpit to thrust his right hand into the air to salute a crowd that had greeted him with boos and catcalls when he arrived on the grid.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5069249.ece
Hello, anyone else smelling conspiracy? or is this simply BS from McLaren?
11-03-2008, 01:00 AM
#247
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Ahhh for the bitter to weep 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7705302.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/7678495.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/7705329.stm
Just Enjoy the moment gents ........................................................................ ............
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7705302.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/7678495.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/7705329.stm
Just Enjoy the moment gents ........................................................................ ............
11-03-2008, 01:47 AM
#249
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I knew this thread would be good for a laugh. You Ferrari suck-ups with your conspiracy theory is exactly what I expected to find when I got here. Put down the crack pipe and accept that Lewis did enough to win the championship. The Ferrari team cares more about the constructors championship anyway.
I'm sure you were dribbling on yourselves as Lewis had such a hard time replacing the steering wheel after exiting the cockpit. I'm sure you would have wanted a 25 second penalty for that. I'm also sure that you probably squeal like little girls when the FIA hands Ferrari a race or two.
This just in....again
Lewis Hamilton of Vodafone McLaren Mercedes is the 2008 WDC.
Some of you need to try to be as grown up about the result as Flippy Massa. He showed a lot of class under the bitter disappointment.
I'm sure you were dribbling on yourselves as Lewis had such a hard time replacing the steering wheel after exiting the cockpit. I'm sure you would have wanted a 25 second penalty for that. I'm also sure that you probably squeal like little girls when the FIA hands Ferrari a race or two.
This just in....again
Lewis Hamilton of Vodafone McLaren Mercedes is the 2008 WDC.
Some of you need to try to be as grown up about the result as Flippy Massa. He showed a lot of class under the bitter disappointment.
11-03-2008, 01:55 AM
#250
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FredC,
I see where your coming from, but consider this for a moment, Vettel is a 22 year old rookie in a Toro Rosso. He just came in to get rain tires and he's behind LH who is going for the WDC.
He is behind one of the 2 contenders for the WDC. Does he try to pass him or not? If he does he HAS to make sure he doesn't touch Hamilton and screw him up, while it's raining and there is lap traffic all over the track. Vettel has a set of nuts the size of bowling ***** to make that decision and then making it stick without crashing out LH under difficult conditions.
I see where your coming from, but consider this for a moment, Vettel is a 22 year old rookie in a Toro Rosso. He just came in to get rain tires and he's behind LH who is going for the WDC.
He is behind one of the 2 contenders for the WDC. Does he try to pass him or not? If he does he HAS to make sure he doesn't touch Hamilton and screw him up, while it's raining and there is lap traffic all over the track. Vettel has a set of nuts the size of bowling ***** to make that decision and then making it stick without crashing out LH under difficult conditions.
The skipping of pit stop by glock put him in a bind as a gamble at the end of the race when you're already close to the limit of where you can finish it's a big deal.
We all know that unless someone told him otherwise he would have at least made a desperate attempt to pass Vettel. He wouldnt have coasted home just out of the points he needed.
From another perspective LH would have tried a desparate re-pass just 3-months ago and never finished the race. LH did what he had to after running a too conservative race that was planned out for him. As Fred C said, no pressure on all but two drivers that day. When Massa played it safe and got lucky at Spa, it came around this time for LH. The "Glock conspiracy" is just silly Pete. I have to agree with Wayne on that one. BTW, Wacky Wayne was right, Alonso would/did well late in the season and podium'd.
SOME PEOPLE FORGET TEAMS HAVE RADIOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMFG!!!!!!!!! GLOCK YOU ****ING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Conspiracy or not Hamilton croaked under the pressure again, but this time got lucky was handed the championship on a silver platter from Glock. I was rooting for Vettel sooooo bad in the STR, and I nearly flipped out when he passed them. Then to see it all ruined by Glock giving up and letting everyone by, on the last corner, which was dry!!!!!! AHHH can't even vent frustration 
.... I have to feel for Massa, although never being a fan of his, he showed his true character, and earned my respect. He did everything he had to do, and had it stolen away by some second rate loser like Glock... 
Looking at this season as a whole Hamilton deserved it, since he had the lesser of the four completely ****ty showings (RAI, MAS, HAM, KOV), but after a sub par performance like that and gift from Glock I have a hard time giving him props for the WDC.
.... I have to feel for Massa, although never being a fan of his, he showed his true character, and earned my respect. He did everything he had to do, and had it stolen away by some second rate loser like Glock... Looking at this season as a whole Hamilton deserved it, since he had the lesser of the four completely ****ty showings (RAI, MAS, HAM, KOV), but after a sub par performance like that and gift from Glock I have a hard time giving him props for the WDC.At least you have something to cry about until next season.
Agreed that this was a bad showing on behalf of the top of the field. But we havent competitiveness from this much of the field in a long while. Toyota, BMW, Renault, or wherever Vettel ends up are all going to be good next year, and steal points from the top 4 guys. That's the differene between this year and last, last year in a Mac or F-car you should have automatically been 1-4th. This year was not so much the case, the overall speed has increased and the delta is smaller now. And will result in lower scores. Mark my words, there will not be 3 and 4 drivers over 100 points like there was last year for a while.
Why is this so hard for you to understand? Glock gained track position over Hamilton by NOT pitting for wet tires like everyone else did. That turned out to be a bad call. If the track had stayed relatively dry then Glock's big gamble would have paid off. Instead it rained heavily during the last lap and a half, like everyone else predicted, and Glock could barely keep it on the track. Don't blame Lewis because Toyota lost betting against the weather.
I read it. Larry posted the differnce was 1:44s, the others 1:26s. Difference of 18 sec. laps. Glock started 15 seconds ahead of Hamilton on that lap and finished 5.4 seconds behind. Very close, but the difference is that as Mtosi pointed out, that part of the track was dry/drier and his speed differential was massive. Usually on the groved tires there is a long of slipping and sliding, but that wasn't evident with the Toyota of Timo Glock.
Don't worry Kurt, I'm opening up the investiation tomorrow morning, I promise. The report will all finding will be posted at a later date.
Don't worry Kurt, I'm opening up the investiation tomorrow morning, I promise. The report will all finding will be posted at a later date.
Simply physics: If car A starts on lap 15 seconds ahead of Car B, but car B is lapping 18 seconds faster, with conditions worsening, then who should win, and by what general margin?
Im sure you will hold onto it being a conspiracy for dear life, but you will fail. Miserably.
And maybe you guys forgot one simple word that's thrown around here alot, that was tossed in Lewis' and McLarens face after last year, and is VERY appropriate after this year for the FIA and Ferrari.
K A R M A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bwahahahahahahahahahaahahahhahhahahahhahah
11-03-2008, 08:19 AM
#253
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It is funny to hear the opinions of drivers that have not raced in the rain on full slicks. You are a sitting duck to anyone on better tires. Look at the results of Silverstone with Ruben's and Spa. Touring cars are difficult enough, I cannot even imagine an F1 car losing it's aero and no driver aids in the same situation.
11-03-2008, 09:08 AM
#254
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Glock was not sand bagging.
Had Glock pit in to put rain tires as everybody else did, he would have been way behind top 10. Actually, the Toyota strategy for Glock worked well, as he was able to finish on the points.
Massa lost the WDC because of the Ferrari gizmo pit light, and a blown engine. He out drove Kimi at the end of the season (and I'm a die-hard Kimi fan).
McLaren gave Hamilton a good car, and he kept hitting people from behind, and doing all sort of stupid things, and he still got away with a championship.
No doubt that the best driver in F1 is Fernando after Schumacher left. Vettel is a new Schumacher in the making, lately he makes me remember the days when Schumacher was driving for Benetton, when he kept challenging Senna and Prost with a lesser car.
I feel bad for Coulthard.
Best end of F1 season ever without doubt.
Had Glock pit in to put rain tires as everybody else did, he would have been way behind top 10. Actually, the Toyota strategy for Glock worked well, as he was able to finish on the points.
Massa lost the WDC because of the Ferrari gizmo pit light, and a blown engine. He out drove Kimi at the end of the season (and I'm a die-hard Kimi fan).
McLaren gave Hamilton a good car, and he kept hitting people from behind, and doing all sort of stupid things, and he still got away with a championship.
No doubt that the best driver in F1 is Fernando after Schumacher left. Vettel is a new Schumacher in the making, lately he makes me remember the days when Schumacher was driving for Benetton, when he kept challenging Senna and Prost with a lesser car.
I feel bad for Coulthard.
Best end of F1 season ever without doubt.
11-03-2008, 10:03 AM
#255
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