ALMS Laguna Seca 08 times. Amazing!
10-21-2008, 01:19 AM
#46
Advanced
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not a chance Mark, my bushings are only 3 years old! Actually the ol' Viper is runing a 2 hour enduro at Buttonwillow this weekend.
10-21-2008, 01:29 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
sounds like fun (and a lot of gas!!) do you have to burn race gas in that beast?
Next year, we can have a battle of the bushings. I should have a couple of new things next season. I might even have a set of shocks that i can adjust!
mk'
Next year, we can have a battle of the bushings. I should have a couple of new things next season. I might even have a set of shocks that i can adjust!
mk'
10-21-2008, 07:20 AM
#49
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
ALMS was very hospitable with me and I'm scared to post my full experience and instigating a flame thread...
let's just say I got to see it all and do it all!
10-21-2008, 11:20 AM
#50
Drifting
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly how much back to back testing have you done on slicks and r-comps? You have some data acquisition to back that up? Talk to many tire engineers?
Every post from you is just an excuse, explanation, excuse...wash, rinse, repeat. IF, BUT, IF. IF ___________, I would be as fast as Pobst. My car only has ___________ compared to your car, so I __________. If I were running slicks, I would be ________ seconds faster. If you're so keen to compare yourself to someone, go get in a car and DO IT.
Hey Mark....point me to the post where I said anything about WCGT cars ANYWHERE on this thread. 
You're making stuff up in order to further your argument now.
It is interesting though that in past threads you've talked up how fast the ITE cars are that you race against when trying to prop yourself up and now you're talking them down when trying to come up with an excuse as to why they aren't faster than WC Touring cars.
Every post from you is just an excuse, explanation, excuse...wash, rinse, repeat. IF, BUT, IF. IF ___________, I would be as fast as Pobst. My car only has ___________ compared to your car, so I __________. If I were running slicks, I would be ________ seconds faster. If you're so keen to compare yourself to someone, go get in a car and DO IT.
so, i have to laugh when Bryan mentions that we have a bunch of speed GT like cars out in ITE. hmm, more like touring at best,or T1 for the heavy cars. our C5 vet is 3250lbs and 390rwhp, our camaro is 3500lbs with 440rwhp our WC Vipers are very old technology now, there is an RX7 that can mop up most anything in the rain (Bobcat!) and a few BMW e36 3.2 euros that are 285rwhp and 2700lbs which run right there as well. All fast and fun club racers, but hardly WCGT.
You're making stuff up in order to further your argument now.It is interesting though that in past threads you've talked up how fast the ITE cars are that you race against when trying to prop yourself up and now you're talking them down when trying to come up with an excuse as to why they aren't faster than WC Touring cars.
10-21-2008, 11:22 AM
#51
Drifting
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm learning a lot from this thread.
I thought I was fast with my 1:32.2 in race conditions with POC recently, and then I saw the ALMS times. I became despondent. I stopped eating. I couldn't sleep.
But now I see the light!
minus 1.0 sec. for a clean lap/no traffic
minus 1.0 if we take off the 92 db mufflers
minus 1.0 with better tires (the ALMS Michelins)
minus 1.0 with better aero (my '76 911 is like a Model T by comparison to RSR)
minus 1.0 for pro setup
Now I'm down to low :27s, possibly high :26s
I'm ready for someone to hire me!
I thought I was fast with my 1:32.2 in race conditions with POC recently, and then I saw the ALMS times. I became despondent. I stopped eating. I couldn't sleep.
But now I see the light!
minus 1.0 sec. for a clean lap/no traffic
minus 1.0 if we take off the 92 db mufflers
minus 1.0 with better tires (the ALMS Michelins)
minus 1.0 with better aero (my '76 911 is like a Model T by comparison to RSR)
minus 1.0 for pro setup
Now I'm down to low :27s, possibly high :26s
I'm ready for someone to hire me!
Intake 10 hp
Exhaust 10 hp
Neon 10 hp
Tires 5 hp
Cams 20 hp...
All of the sudden your 100 hp Civic is a 300 hp Porsche killer.
10-21-2008, 01:28 PM
#52
Advanced
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since I had the ECM reprogrammed earlier this year I do have the car tuned for 100 octane. It's not cheap, but the motor seems to be happy with it. I'm looking forward to getting up to your area to run with the rest of the ITE guys. It looks like I'll really have my hands full with that Griggs Mustang.
10-21-2008, 07:32 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ive driven several 928s with and without slicks and i can clearly say, its night and day. now, if you have the data that backs it up, it would be interesting to see. I think as far as justification of my efforts, ive always said, im only as good as my times and record indicate. I do have several years worth of 1:39s with a car far less than Grandam cup GS, and many of the cars of world challenge back in 1999-2000 with much less equip. Thats all. no more no less. Also, its good athletics to constantly try to improve your game vs the others out there. all we have to go on these days, and its a lot more than the old days, is times, videos and telemtry if you can get a hold of some. You want to see how fast i am. go find some 21 year old car. put on some cheap suspension, bars, rims and tires with a set of headers and go try and run a mid pack (used to be front of the pack) Touring time.
Ive seen your videos. you got a hot little ride and access to a lot of hopped up equipment. Me, i still drive the race car to the track.
As far as the group of ITE, yes it is a group of fast cars. Certainly nothing compared newer and much more powerfull cars of WCGT, but near the performance of some pretty hot WCT cars of years past. I havent made excuses of why we are not as fast as touring cars, ive given reasons why they are so fast!! Touring cars now are near $120k for a front runner, maybe more! I've seen them and run against them in our ITE races. Brandon Davis, Prall, a few others have raced wtih us. our little shade tree cars, are fast for production cars. They share much of the performance of the touring cars. (ie hp /weight , tires, ) and where they are lacking in chassis development and tuning, we can make up with HP. ITE cars have never been faster than what our times post. the class is generally 1:36s to 1:39s depending on who shows up. They are fast for street cars and fast for most classes that they would fit into , like American V8 challenge, GTS NASA, etc. I dont need to get in a car and do it. I run what i have and it is fast as it is. Every driver that gets in a different car runs differently. Race cars are classsed by certain performance features, why???? because they make the car perform to a certain level. Weight, hp, tires, suspension, set up, etc etc are all factors.
Alll the things that I dont have are the things that most folks say will be worth "a second a lap" we all know that is not true, but if i had:
1. an alignment, hasnt had one in 7 years
2. new tires, or slicks,
3. 400lbs less weight,
4. working and adjustable shocks,
5. a real cage that stiffens the chassis
6. something other than my 2:2 rear end transmission
7. air box mod
8. ecu mod of some sort
9. telemetry
10. oiling mods other than bone stock
11. and some actual tuning of the car in areas of set up. (nothing has been changed except a bolt on wing that was found in the trash can and a home depot splitter over the 7 years ive owned and raced the car
What could or would all these things be worth? what are they worth to you?
Now, if you dont think these thing are worth anything as far as comparing yourself to others in far greater equipment, or judging how you stack up by racing with those cars, on the track, in all out racing situations, thats your opinion.
This was not ment to start an argument, it was ment to talk about what the heck is going on with the ALMS GT2 car for them to be so fast. a non porsche example was Feinberg in that CC viper. he was back of the pack in WC, but now that car is running 1:24. what was different for this series in this car?? weight, tires ? yes, engine? probably no restrictor, headers, who else knows!
anyway, it is 10 seconds faster than he was in WC GT competition and is a farily new driver. I like to ask these questions as it starts to point me in directions to do those things to my car to make it faster.
Again Bryan, get over yourself. we have all seen your videos too! You got a hot little e36. its got a nice motor in it and its pretty light. we have a few of those out here that are just as fast. (on slicks like you).
as far as slicks, if you think new slicks are the same as DOT hoosiers or RA1s, you are in the complete minority. I have a unique perspective here in that we have to run DOTs, so often, many of our competitors run in two groups.. in the slick group, they always run 2 or more seconds faster. Look at anderson for years has been running in WC. on slicks he runs 1:30.7 on dots with the same HP, has never been faster than a 1:34.xx. Not scientific, but factual.
If slicks were just as fast as toyos, i think some ALMS teams would use them to run without stopping for anything but gas!
mk
Ive seen your videos. you got a hot little ride and access to a lot of hopped up equipment. Me, i still drive the race car to the track.
As far as the group of ITE, yes it is a group of fast cars. Certainly nothing compared newer and much more powerfull cars of WCGT, but near the performance of some pretty hot WCT cars of years past. I havent made excuses of why we are not as fast as touring cars, ive given reasons why they are so fast!! Touring cars now are near $120k for a front runner, maybe more! I've seen them and run against them in our ITE races. Brandon Davis, Prall, a few others have raced wtih us. our little shade tree cars, are fast for production cars. They share much of the performance of the touring cars. (ie hp /weight , tires, ) and where they are lacking in chassis development and tuning, we can make up with HP. ITE cars have never been faster than what our times post. the class is generally 1:36s to 1:39s depending on who shows up. They are fast for street cars and fast for most classes that they would fit into , like American V8 challenge, GTS NASA, etc. I dont need to get in a car and do it. I run what i have and it is fast as it is. Every driver that gets in a different car runs differently. Race cars are classsed by certain performance features, why???? because they make the car perform to a certain level. Weight, hp, tires, suspension, set up, etc etc are all factors.
Alll the things that I dont have are the things that most folks say will be worth "a second a lap" we all know that is not true, but if i had:
1. an alignment, hasnt had one in 7 years
2. new tires, or slicks,
3. 400lbs less weight,
4. working and adjustable shocks,
5. a real cage that stiffens the chassis
6. something other than my 2:2 rear end transmission
7. air box mod
8. ecu mod of some sort
9. telemetry
10. oiling mods other than bone stock
11. and some actual tuning of the car in areas of set up. (nothing has been changed except a bolt on wing that was found in the trash can and a home depot splitter over the 7 years ive owned and raced the car
What could or would all these things be worth? what are they worth to you?
Now, if you dont think these thing are worth anything as far as comparing yourself to others in far greater equipment, or judging how you stack up by racing with those cars, on the track, in all out racing situations, thats your opinion.
This was not ment to start an argument, it was ment to talk about what the heck is going on with the ALMS GT2 car for them to be so fast. a non porsche example was Feinberg in that CC viper. he was back of the pack in WC, but now that car is running 1:24. what was different for this series in this car?? weight, tires ? yes, engine? probably no restrictor, headers, who else knows!
anyway, it is 10 seconds faster than he was in WC GT competition and is a farily new driver. I like to ask these questions as it starts to point me in directions to do those things to my car to make it faster.
Again Bryan, get over yourself. we have all seen your videos too! You got a hot little e36. its got a nice motor in it and its pretty light. we have a few of those out here that are just as fast. (on slicks like you).
as far as slicks, if you think new slicks are the same as DOT hoosiers or RA1s, you are in the complete minority. I have a unique perspective here in that we have to run DOTs, so often, many of our competitors run in two groups.. in the slick group, they always run 2 or more seconds faster. Look at anderson for years has been running in WC. on slicks he runs 1:30.7 on dots with the same HP, has never been faster than a 1:34.xx. Not scientific, but factual.
If slicks were just as fast as toyos, i think some ALMS teams would use them to run without stopping for anything but gas!
mk
Exactly how much back to back testing have you done on slicks and r-comps? You have some data acquisition to back that up? Talk to many tire engineers?
Every post from you is just an excuse, explanation, excuse...wash, rinse, repeat. IF, BUT, IF. IF ___________, I would be as fast as Pobst. My car only has ___________ compared to your car, so I __________. If I were running slicks, I would be ________ seconds faster. If you're so keen to compare yourself to someone, go get in a car and DO IT.
Hey Mark....point me to the post where I said anything about WCGT cars ANYWHERE on this thread. You're making stuff up in order to further your argument now.
It is interesting though that in past threads you've talked up how fast the ITE cars are that you race against when trying to prop yourself up and now you're talking them down when trying to come up with an excuse as to why they aren't faster than WC Touring cars.
Every post from you is just an excuse, explanation, excuse...wash, rinse, repeat. IF, BUT, IF. IF ___________, I would be as fast as Pobst. My car only has ___________ compared to your car, so I __________. If I were running slicks, I would be ________ seconds faster. If you're so keen to compare yourself to someone, go get in a car and DO IT.
Hey Mark....point me to the post where I said anything about WCGT cars ANYWHERE on this thread.
You're making stuff up in order to further your argument now.It is interesting though that in past threads you've talked up how fast the ITE cars are that you race against when trying to prop yourself up and now you're talking them down when trying to come up with an excuse as to why they aren't faster than WC Touring cars.
10-21-2008, 07:45 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Not far off if you take your honda civic to HRP. Hondata?
300+Fwhp for the little yellow civic with the big wing. Basically, a 2200lb WC Touring car. a car like his and the VW turbo (330fwhp) with Christan Miller were going at it at laguna seca last year in WCTouring, and were running up near the top 10. The cool thing about the honda was the engine was N/A! it was light and quick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fevkGYxe34
if you showed up to the ricer time atttack, you would get your *** handed to you by cars that look like they should be driffing at a autocross near you .
these cars were serious road cars and many ran in the 1:31s 1:32s at laguna seca.
mk
OTE=Bryan Watts;5921035]It's the ricer approach to laptimes.
Intake 10 hp
Exhaust 10 hp
Neon 10 hp
Tires 5 hp
Cams 20 hp...
All of the sudden your 100 hp Civic is a 300 hp Porsche killer.[/QUOTE]
300+Fwhp for the little yellow civic with the big wing. Basically, a 2200lb WC Touring car. a car like his and the VW turbo (330fwhp) with Christan Miller were going at it at laguna seca last year in WCTouring, and were running up near the top 10. The cool thing about the honda was the engine was N/A! it was light and quick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fevkGYxe34
if you showed up to the ricer time atttack, you would get your *** handed to you by cars that look like they should be driffing at a autocross near you .
these cars were serious road cars and many ran in the 1:31s 1:32s at laguna seca.
mk
OTE=Bryan Watts;5921035]It's the ricer approach to laptimes.
Intake 10 hp
Exhaust 10 hp
Neon 10 hp
Tires 5 hp
Cams 20 hp...
All of the sudden your 100 hp Civic is a 300 hp Porsche killer.
[/QUOTE]
10-21-2008, 08:42 PM
#55
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
IIRC Bryans car was something like second overall last year at teh Redline Time Attack at VIR running sub 2 minute times.
10-21-2008, 11:14 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Time attacks out here are off the chart. an Evo ran as fast as a ALMS GT2 would run at Buttonwilllow Time Attack, and the top guys were right around SpeedGT race times at Laguna Seca.
I know how fast Bryans car is. He has already said so, and we have one of those out here with the BMW club guys. 1:34ish at laguna is what i would predict he would do with some getting used to the track
However, sub 2min is smoking fast, even with slicks.
mk
I know how fast Bryans car is. He has already said so, and we have one of those out here with the BMW club guys. 1:34ish at laguna is what i would predict he would do with some getting used to the track
However, sub 2min is smoking fast, even with slicks.
mk
10-22-2008, 12:03 AM
#57
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Small
Business Sponsor
10-22-2008, 12:51 AM
#58
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
that's good info. dell runs 2:03 so he/his (old) car might do 1:32ish at LS? that would be phenonemal for a street gt3 - but i'm not up to date on all his mods. The fastest stock GT3 on hoosiers that i know of runs in the high 1:37's. And that driver is smoking! cup cars run 1:28's on slicks.
10-22-2008, 01:08 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
What we do know and it seems to be a good barometer, is the speed touring cars. VIR times were in the 2:05 while these cars are at 1:36 at laguna. because VIR is much longer , the percentage rule might take over here.
I thought the GT cars ran 1:55, but i might be off there. GT Race times at laguna were right around 1:31 or near the time attack ricers.
Angelli ran a stock GT3 on DOTs and ran a 1:39.7 at laguna. and yes, the cup cars now run 1:28s which is off the charts amazing now!
mk
I thought the GT cars ran 1:55, but i might be off there. GT Race times at laguna were right around 1:31 or near the time attack ricers.
Angelli ran a stock GT3 on DOTs and ran a 1:39.7 at laguna. and yes, the cup cars now run 1:28s which is off the charts amazing now!
mk
that's good info. dell runs 2:03 so he/his (old) car might do 1:32ish at LS? that would be phenonemal for a street gt3 - but i'm not up to date on all his mods. The fastest stock GT3 on hoosiers that i know of runs in the high 1:37's. And that driver is smoking! cup cars run 1:28's on slicks.
10-22-2008, 01:35 AM
#60
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Where did you get this info or conversion?
Rolex GT ran 1:53s at VIR and 1:29s at laguna.
I dont know of any 2:00 cars at VIR, but i think the percentage factor would put a 2:00 car at VIR at around 1:34, maybe 1:33 with some practice for a new driver here.
I think Bryan can use 4% faster than a top Speed touring car at a track near you ! (or grand am cup GS (koni Cup)
VIR times below:
POS NO. CLASS PIC DRIVER TEAM/CAR LAPS BEST LAP (#) AVG MPH SPONSORS
1 60 GS 1 Canney / Plumb Rehagen Racing / Ford Mustang GT 155 2:05.223 2 84.184 Sunset Hills Vineyard
2 59 GS 2 Martin / Phinny / Roush Rehagen Racing / Ford Mustang GT 155 2:05.292 2 84.183 Roush Performance Products, Valvoline
3 41 GS 3 Lally / Ludwig / Schroeder TRG / Porsche 997 155 2:05.902 4 84.182 Carlsen Porsche, Cohen Financial, Wolf-
9 97 GS 9 Auberlen / Ortiz / Salama Turner Motorsport / BMW M3 Coupe 155 2:06.088 2 84.135 Turner Motorsport
Hey look bryan, you are 5 seconds faster than Auberlen with the near same engine mods in a E46!
I can hear Auberlen saying after he saw your times, that its because you are a lot lighter and you have those fancy slicks.
Rolex GT ran 1:53s at VIR and 1:29s at laguna.
I dont know of any 2:00 cars at VIR, but i think the percentage factor would put a 2:00 car at VIR at around 1:34, maybe 1:33 with some practice for a new driver here.
I think Bryan can use 4% faster than a top Speed touring car at a track near you ! (or grand am cup GS (koni Cup)
VIR times below:
POS NO. CLASS PIC DRIVER TEAM/CAR LAPS BEST LAP (#) AVG MPH SPONSORS
1 60 GS 1 Canney / Plumb Rehagen Racing / Ford Mustang GT 155 2:05.223 2 84.184 Sunset Hills Vineyard
2 59 GS 2 Martin / Phinny / Roush Rehagen Racing / Ford Mustang GT 155 2:05.292 2 84.183 Roush Performance Products, Valvoline
3 41 GS 3 Lally / Ludwig / Schroeder TRG / Porsche 997 155 2:05.902 4 84.182 Carlsen Porsche, Cohen Financial, Wolf-
9 97 GS 9 Auberlen / Ortiz / Salama Turner Motorsport / BMW M3 Coupe 155 2:06.088 2 84.135 Turner Motorsport
Hey look bryan, you are 5 seconds faster than Auberlen with the near same engine mods in a E46!
I can hear Auberlen saying after he saw your times, that its because you are a lot lighter and you have those fancy slicks.
Last edited by mark kibort; 10-22-2008 at 02:48 AM.