Corvette C5 Z06 Seat Install
09-12-2008, 02:42 PM
#1
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Corvette C5 Z06 Seat Install
Hey;
This might give you plastic car owners some ideas. The owner of this car needed a race seat on the passenger side to comply with new restraint rules.
Let me start by saying this; THERE IS NO ROOM IN A CORVETTE! (if you thought a Porsche was tight...
)
I'll continue by saying this; THERE IS NO PLACE TO MOUNT ANYTHING EXCEPT THE FACTORY MOUNT POINTS!
Read those again and apply them to what you are about to see. The only solid mount points are those supplied and already used by the factory. Everything else is either plastic, wood, or a combination of both, and not suitable for mounting anything. You can't just create your own points as needed in these cars!
Beyond the complications already mentioned, the factory puts the G-sensor under the carpet right next to the tunnel, under the seat, right where the seat track would sit if it were flat on the floor. If you thought about moving it, you might want to think again. Will it work right away from where they put it? I left it there.
The install starts with the high quality factory manual seat sliders. Not very common, and quite pricey ($300-ish new) but it sure saved a lot of engineering. Because of a severe lack of side space, and to preserve headroom and yet not make a lot of work, I decided to use the factory seat mount point on the rear, which requires the less effective method of bolting down through the seat base. This is not ideal, as it puts a lot of stress on the seat material in tension, rather than the far preferable method of side mounting which places all loads in shear. I used very large .125" steel plates as washers to spread the stress out over a larger area of the seat pan.
As luck would have it, the area where I chose to bolt through the seat base at the rear offered a perfect angle for the whole seat to sit. In the front, with plenty of space available, I was able to create a more favorable side mount configuration. I made .125" steel plates and welded them to the sliders.
As mentioned, space is very limited in the rear between the seat and the cover over the 3-point belt mechanism. This photo shows that clearly. Lap belts with fixed end plates would have been a much better choice for saving precious space, but I had to use what was supplied. In the end, there is just enough room for the belt terminal (1/2") to fit between the seat and the sill panel.
Here is the lap belt mount, incorporated into the end of the seat slider. The mount you see extending up from the slider was hand formed from ..095" steel tube and plate, and welded to the end of the rail. Remember again that there is no other place to mount anything other than the factory points. As such, this seemed to be the best compromise available. It is very carfeully positioned to fit in the available space, to offer the belt a flat load path, and also to not make the belt material "fold" over the seat as it passes through the seat hole. All EXTREMELY tricky to figure out!
The old idea of mounting subs through a floor pan with big washers is a fool's paradise in any event, but is impossible here. The floor is thin plastic and wood!! The fact that the seat tracks have a large step up in the front to clear the g-sensor offered me the opportunity to get a mount in under the track base. This would seem to be a highly over-built structure - being of 1/2"x2 flat plate and 1.5x.095 tube, but I felt it was important to make it as stiff as possible so as to ADD strength to the seat rail assembly, not compromise them. The idea being that the loads - which are just as high as any other belt in the system - will be transmitted into the rails in such a way that they are much less likely to fail. The reality is that even though seat mounting any belt is a "less than optimal" compromise, this is far less likely to fail than mounting to a remote spot (like a tin floor) POORLY.
Because of the way some event organizers rules and this seat manufacturers installation instructions are worded, The owner thought it was important to attach the seat at shoulder height. Not a bad idea. These hand formed brackets not only brace the seat to the cage, but also stiffen the seat itself, making it less likely that the shoulder bolsters will bend and dump the driver.
Because the diagonal bar of the Kirk roll bar intersects the belt bar right behind the seat, it does not make a good point at which to wrap shoulder belts. I fabricated and welded this flat plate to the face of the belt bar to obviate that problem, and at the perfect height for proper belt geometry. This plate also picks up and mounts the seat back brace brackets with the use of a pair of lynch pins secured by clips. Very simple and quick to handle, but highly effective.
Getting a component in any car is always about making the best compromises possible based on a solid understanding of the systems and dynamics involved. Every car and component offers its own unique set of constraints. This car has a solid mounted driver's seat using a very different setup than the one I created here. I predicted to the owner that within a year of living with both setups (he installs these seats for track events only), that - even though it took me a substantial 20.5 hours to do this install - he would be selling his current left side hardware and asking me to recreate this passenger side setup for his seat as well.
Very difficult to figger out, but a lot of fun!
This might give you plastic car owners some ideas. The owner of this car needed a race seat on the passenger side to comply with new restraint rules.
Let me start by saying this; THERE IS NO ROOM IN A CORVETTE! (if you thought a Porsche was tight...
)I'll continue by saying this; THERE IS NO PLACE TO MOUNT ANYTHING EXCEPT THE FACTORY MOUNT POINTS!
Read those again and apply them to what you are about to see. The only solid mount points are those supplied and already used by the factory. Everything else is either plastic, wood, or a combination of both, and not suitable for mounting anything. You can't just create your own points as needed in these cars!
Beyond the complications already mentioned, the factory puts the G-sensor under the carpet right next to the tunnel, under the seat, right where the seat track would sit if it were flat on the floor. If you thought about moving it, you might want to think again. Will it work right away from where they put it? I left it there.
The install starts with the high quality factory manual seat sliders. Not very common, and quite pricey ($300-ish new) but it sure saved a lot of engineering. Because of a severe lack of side space, and to preserve headroom and yet not make a lot of work, I decided to use the factory seat mount point on the rear, which requires the less effective method of bolting down through the seat base. This is not ideal, as it puts a lot of stress on the seat material in tension, rather than the far preferable method of side mounting which places all loads in shear. I used very large .125" steel plates as washers to spread the stress out over a larger area of the seat pan.
As luck would have it, the area where I chose to bolt through the seat base at the rear offered a perfect angle for the whole seat to sit. In the front, with plenty of space available, I was able to create a more favorable side mount configuration. I made .125" steel plates and welded them to the sliders.
As mentioned, space is very limited in the rear between the seat and the cover over the 3-point belt mechanism. This photo shows that clearly. Lap belts with fixed end plates would have been a much better choice for saving precious space, but I had to use what was supplied. In the end, there is just enough room for the belt terminal (1/2") to fit between the seat and the sill panel.
Here is the lap belt mount, incorporated into the end of the seat slider. The mount you see extending up from the slider was hand formed from ..095" steel tube and plate, and welded to the end of the rail. Remember again that there is no other place to mount anything other than the factory points. As such, this seemed to be the best compromise available. It is very carfeully positioned to fit in the available space, to offer the belt a flat load path, and also to not make the belt material "fold" over the seat as it passes through the seat hole. All EXTREMELY tricky to figure out!
The old idea of mounting subs through a floor pan with big washers is a fool's paradise in any event, but is impossible here. The floor is thin plastic and wood!! The fact that the seat tracks have a large step up in the front to clear the g-sensor offered me the opportunity to get a mount in under the track base. This would seem to be a highly over-built structure - being of 1/2"x2 flat plate and 1.5x.095 tube, but I felt it was important to make it as stiff as possible so as to ADD strength to the seat rail assembly, not compromise them. The idea being that the loads - which are just as high as any other belt in the system - will be transmitted into the rails in such a way that they are much less likely to fail. The reality is that even though seat mounting any belt is a "less than optimal" compromise, this is far less likely to fail than mounting to a remote spot (like a tin floor) POORLY.
Because of the way some event organizers rules and this seat manufacturers installation instructions are worded, The owner thought it was important to attach the seat at shoulder height. Not a bad idea. These hand formed brackets not only brace the seat to the cage, but also stiffen the seat itself, making it less likely that the shoulder bolsters will bend and dump the driver.
Because the diagonal bar of the Kirk roll bar intersects the belt bar right behind the seat, it does not make a good point at which to wrap shoulder belts. I fabricated and welded this flat plate to the face of the belt bar to obviate that problem, and at the perfect height for proper belt geometry. This plate also picks up and mounts the seat back brace brackets with the use of a pair of lynch pins secured by clips. Very simple and quick to handle, but highly effective.
Getting a component in any car is always about making the best compromises possible based on a solid understanding of the systems and dynamics involved. Every car and component offers its own unique set of constraints. This car has a solid mounted driver's seat using a very different setup than the one I created here. I predicted to the owner that within a year of living with both setups (he installs these seats for track events only), that - even though it took me a substantial 20.5 hours to do this install - he would be selling his current left side hardware and asking me to recreate this passenger side setup for his seat as well.
Very difficult to figger out, but a lot of fun!
09-12-2008, 05:05 PM
#3
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The only thing that I can see that would be out of compliance is mounting the seat belt to the seat frame. That is not allowable by most autorization bodies.
09-13-2008, 10:50 AM
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...this were a RACE car. It is not. It is a DE car. I don't know of a DE sanctioning body that gets that specific for belt requirements in a DE car. If that were the case, many cars, in completely stock form, from the mid 80s on, would not be in compliance.
09-13-2008, 11:22 AM
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It's amazing that there isn't a seat manufacturer who's made a simple seat installation assembly. It seems that the one complaint everyone has about the Vette is the seats. Wouldn't one of the big seat companies clean up if they made a seat assembly specially for the Vette? I know when I had my Z06 I couldn't find one so I just gave up on the idea. Kudos to this guy for going the extra distance to make the install work.
09-13-2008, 03:06 PM
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Indeed, Stan;
It was a lot of work. If I were to take it to the next level, I would knock the OE studs out of the floor and use longer and possibly larger bolts, and build a seperate belt mountng tab that bolted UNDER the seat track base. This would be a bit more sound from an engineering standpoint, i.e. not relying on a welded part, but one with a fastener. You can see this type of thinking on the inside where the factory 3-point receiver attaches to the seat rail. All of the seat mount pedestals are held to the tracks by two rivets. The seat belt flange has one rivet, the other fastener being a bolt.
I could easily so this again, and it wouldn't take so long a second time!
It was a lot of work. If I were to take it to the next level, I would knock the OE studs out of the floor and use longer and possibly larger bolts, and build a seperate belt mountng tab that bolted UNDER the seat track base. This would be a bit more sound from an engineering standpoint, i.e. not relying on a welded part, but one with a fastener. You can see this type of thinking on the inside where the factory 3-point receiver attaches to the seat rail. All of the seat mount pedestals are held to the tracks by two rivets. The seat belt flange has one rivet, the other fastener being a bolt.
I could easily so this again, and it wouldn't take so long a second time!
09-14-2008, 02:58 AM
#7
On Z06's and all C5's and up for that matter there are aftermarket companies who have addressed the problems. BK and hardbar and carravaglio all make seats, brackets and harness set-ups specific plug and play for the vette. But of course more costly than fabing it yourself.
In the process of building my Z06 cage I tried to take that flimsy basla wood and fiberglass floor out of the car. Well even with heating the epoxy to weaken it the floor will take 3014 lbs which was what I applied to it with a floor jack trying to start it peeling up at a corner. I gave up and left the floor in. The vette floor is much tougher and stiffer than any metal floor I have ever worked with.
Here is part of my work in progress of my seat base weled to my cage..sorry for the bad picture but you get the idea.
Here is what you can do in a vette to anchor the lap belts and substraps for a parachute style set-up used in DE. Less than ideal of course but it does the job and is strong. It just uses angle iron and 6 holes drilled. It is sandwiched between the floor and seat base and still has threads on the bolt. Using the stock seatbase available cheap on ebay is the hot ticket to save fab time. Your solution is very clean and elegant like a stealth fighter. I think my stuff is kinda like a Russian Mig...big and ugly.
In the process of building my Z06 cage I tried to take that flimsy basla wood and fiberglass floor out of the car. Well even with heating the epoxy to weaken it the floor will take 3014 lbs which was what I applied to it with a floor jack trying to start it peeling up at a corner. I gave up and left the floor in. The vette floor is much tougher and stiffer than any metal floor I have ever worked with.
Here is part of my work in progress of my seat base weled to my cage..sorry for the bad picture but you get the idea.
Here is what you can do in a vette to anchor the lap belts and substraps for a parachute style set-up used in DE. Less than ideal of course but it does the job and is strong. It just uses angle iron and 6 holes drilled. It is sandwiched between the floor and seat base and still has threads on the bolt. Using the stock seatbase available cheap on ebay is the hot ticket to save fab time. Your solution is very clean and elegant like a stealth fighter. I think my stuff is kinda like a Russian Mig...big and ugly.
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09-14-2008, 09:37 PM
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Hey;
Now I'm curious. I can't tell which side I'm looking at. I'm curious about where you tied in? Is there steel under there anywhere? I assume so on the outside, but the inside I assume is all plastic. I was not at liberty to cut that much on my install.
The "sandwich install" pictured second is a decent one, indeed. A lot less work for reasonable performance.
Now I'm curious. I can't tell which side I'm looking at. I'm curious about where you tied in? Is there steel under there anywhere? I assume so on the outside, but the inside I assume is all plastic. I was not at liberty to cut that much on my install.
The "sandwich install" pictured second is a decent one, indeed. A lot less work for reasonable performance.
09-15-2008, 02:11 AM
#9
Sorry for no explanation. The tunnel is steel like any car but it is tough and hard and thick. Even at high welder settings there is no burn through of the tunnel metal. It is the only central metal in the car so is structural and has a tunnel plate basically making a torque tube within a torque tube going back to the transaxle. The real chassis are the hydroformed frame rails kinda like an hour glass shape in reverse and they hold the engine mounts, rear transaxle mount like 944 and the suspension pickup points. These rails are about 2.5" x 7" x 0.90" rectangular tubing. The seat base I fabricated is on the driver's side and there is a whole ordeal of tubes to support my seat back and dual shoulderstrap HANS harness. The seat base is welded to the lateral support tubes front and rear that go from the lateral frame rails to the tunnel. Of course the attachment points of the lateral tubes are plated and the lateral plates are the acchement points of my A-piller tubes and my B piller rollover hoop. The Ultrashield roadrace super seat is bolted at 6 places to the cage. I actually just finished the cage today. I still need to weld in some tabs for the window net and maybe a few gussets.
