NASCAR buying Grand Am
09-05-2008, 06:38 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Mike, you have to live in the world of what IS, not the world of what you would like to be.
09-05-2008, 06:43 PM
#47
User
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sterling, MA
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However I go back to my original statment........
09-05-2008, 06:50 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
And AGAIN, why do you believe that would be a good thing?
09-05-2008, 06:58 PM
#49
NASA Racer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
wow, there is some serious backwards logic at work here. Gentlemen racers bring cash to help smaller independent teams fund their efforts. So without them we'd be down to a couple of factory and non-factory pro teams who come in and out of series on a whim or based on what car they're trying to sell or not sell that year or whether or not they can convince a pharma company to sponsor them and that's a good thing for us race fans and aspiring pro racers because there won't be any hacks with the thoroughbreds? Or, because someone has figured out a better "model" for a series.
09-05-2008, 07:03 PM
#50
User
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sterling, MA
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
....
Maybe I don't get it, but I think watching some of the best drivers in the world battle it out is far more entertaining than watching a bunch of rich guys ***** foot it around for ego (vs winning, which is what good drivers are paid to do). Hence why, despite my dislike of ovals I still watch NASCAR.
(forgive that butchered sentence/sentences, I tried it like three different ways and they all sucked.)
Exactly... As I mentioned countless times before the reason I would like to see gentlemen drivers in "pro" series gone, is because it would mean someone in sportscars had actually figured out that concept (my major). Which would create an environment where manufacturers and sponsors had more influence (money), than rich guys who just like to play on weekends. It would also open up rides for skilled and younger drivers coming up through the ranks because teams would have the motivation to win.
(forgive that butchered sentence/sentences, I tried it like three different ways and they all sucked.)
Last edited by MTosi; 09-05-2008 at 07:27 PM.
09-05-2008, 07:34 PM
#52
User
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sterling, MA
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wow, there is some serious backwards logic at work here. Gentlemen racers bring cash to help smaller independent teams fund their efforts. So without them we'd be down to a couple of factory and non-factory pro teams who come in and out of series on a whim or based on what car they're trying to sell or not sell that year or whether or not they can convince a pharma company to sponsor them and that's a good thing for us race fans and aspiring pro racers because there won't be any hacks with the thoroughbreds? Or, because someone has figured out a better "model" for a series.
09-05-2008, 08:20 PM
#54
Drifting
The argument is not that we should wake up tommorow and kick out gentlemen racers. It's that someone needs to market/develop/manage sportscar racing to the point where gentlemen drivers are no longer necessary for the series to exist. This creates an environment where the teams are going for the wins to please their sponsors, not just trying to scrape by on as you call it the "whim" of drivers with "funding". Also a consistent set of rules needs to made worldwide, which would help create stability, so we wouldn't have to worry about people/sponsors/manufacturers whims.
09-05-2008, 08:21 PM
#55
Drifting
09-05-2008, 10:42 PM
#57
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
you're going to have a really hard time getting people to read any of your threads after this series of "logical" postings...
I expect you to dedicate your soul to "improving marketing" in sportscar racing- not saying it's not possible but there is a limited market, so you should write up some business plans for the France family, LMS, and whatever other series you deem lacking. kick the door down! damn the man!
if you think the movie sucks, go write and direct your own. hey maybe someone will benefit from your militant anti-gentlemans racing league...start it up!
call it the M.A.N.G.L.E. racing league- just gleaming some hits from your "best era of racing" type threads I've seen
Rule 1.
if you're the owner of a MANGLE team, you must pay someone else to drive
Rule 2.
you must kiss the shoes of the all-mighty Tosi, conqueror of sportscar racing
Rule 3.
no aerodynamics, traction control, abs, electronic differentials
Rule 4.
all drivers must be mustachioed. if unable to grow, must wear mexican wrestling (luchador) mask under open faced helmet (closed face helmets are for pussies)
Rule 5.
safety is for spectators! real men race until someone dies, then until the rest of them run out of gas
Rule 6.
all cars will be based on 1972-1980 formula one cars with 1983 porsche SC body skins- made of FRP in order to save weight
I expect you to dedicate your soul to "improving marketing" in sportscar racing- not saying it's not possible but there is a limited market, so you should write up some business plans for the France family, LMS, and whatever other series you deem lacking. kick the door down! damn the man!
if you think the movie sucks, go write and direct your own. hey maybe someone will benefit from your militant anti-gentlemans racing league...start it up!
call it the M.A.N.G.L.E. racing league- just gleaming some hits from your "best era of racing" type threads I've seen
Rule 1.
if you're the owner of a MANGLE team, you must pay someone else to drive
Rule 2.
you must kiss the shoes of the all-mighty Tosi, conqueror of sportscar racing
Rule 3.
no aerodynamics, traction control, abs, electronic differentials
Rule 4.
all drivers must be mustachioed. if unable to grow, must wear mexican wrestling (luchador) mask under open faced helmet (closed face helmets are for pussies)
Rule 5.
safety is for spectators! real men race until someone dies, then until the rest of them run out of gas
Rule 6.
all cars will be based on 1972-1980 formula one cars with 1983 porsche SC body skins- made of FRP in order to save weight
09-05-2008, 10:52 PM
#58
User
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sterling, MA
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you're going to have a really hard time getting people to read any of your threads after this series of "logical" postings...
I expect you to dedicate your soul to "improving marketing" in sportscar racing- not saying it's not possible but there is a limited market, so you should write up some business plans for the France family, LMS, and whatever other series you deem lacking. kick the door down! damn the man!
I expect you to dedicate your soul to "improving marketing" in sportscar racing- not saying it's not possible but there is a limited market, so you should write up some business plans for the France family, LMS, and whatever other series you deem lacking. kick the door down! damn the man!
Why do you think I'm going for a degree in marketing?
09-05-2008, 11:13 PM
#59
User
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sterling, MA
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and since you asked (or inferred).....
21st century Trans Am
-Production cars with production runs over 2000 units
-Still retain stock unibody
-No flappy paddle gearboxes (standards)
-Suspension design (ie, coilover, leaf, etc.) and mounting points must remain the same, but open beyond that.
-Spec tire, slicks, relatively hard compound
-brakes steel (no carbon, etc.) open other than that
-RWD
-No wings. Flares, front, and rear spoilers are allowed
-No TC or electronic aids of any sort (rule three)
-Engine, stock displacement, stock block, stock head design, no forced induction, but open other than that (allow for things like ITB's, different cams, higher compression, etc.)
Just a starting point for drivers-
Andy Lally
Randy Pobst
Pat Long
Mika Salo
Scott Pruett
Boris Said
Jan Magnussen
Romain Dumas
Marcos Ambrose
Ron Fellows
Jon Fogarty
David Brabham
Bill Auberlen
Alex Gurney
1 hour 30 minute races, with fuel cells allowing for one pit stop (tire change optional)
11 race schedule
Tracks-
Daytona, Sebring, Infineon, Elkhart lake, VIR, Mosport, Road Atlanta, Barber, Laguna, Elkhart lake, WGI
There is no reason there can't be a balance between technology and driving.....
Any takers?
21st century Trans Am
-Production cars with production runs over 2000 units
-Still retain stock unibody
-No flappy paddle gearboxes (standards)
-Suspension design (ie, coilover, leaf, etc.) and mounting points must remain the same, but open beyond that.
-Spec tire, slicks, relatively hard compound
-brakes steel (no carbon, etc.) open other than that
-RWD
-No wings. Flares, front, and rear spoilers are allowed
-No TC or electronic aids of any sort (rule three)
-Engine, stock displacement, stock block, stock head design, no forced induction, but open other than that (allow for things like ITB's, different cams, higher compression, etc.)
Just a starting point for drivers-
Andy Lally
Randy Pobst
Pat Long
Mika Salo
Scott Pruett
Boris Said
Jan Magnussen
Romain Dumas
Marcos Ambrose
Ron Fellows
Jon Fogarty
David Brabham
Bill Auberlen
Alex Gurney
1 hour 30 minute races, with fuel cells allowing for one pit stop (tire change optional)
11 race schedule
Tracks-
Daytona, Sebring, Infineon, Elkhart lake, VIR, Mosport, Road Atlanta, Barber, Laguna, Elkhart lake, WGI
There is no reason there can't be a balance between technology and driving.....
Any takers?
09-05-2008, 11:30 PM
#60
You realize there are or have been "pay to play" drivers in F1, ALMS, and every other professional race series, right?
The comparison to other sports is silly. Every sport you mention has junior leagues that cost just a few $$ to play from age 5 and up and school leagues that are totally free, including college scholarships where players get even more experience before turning Pro. Racing has no such system. Even at the lowest levels, a race car driver "costs" $200K or more in operations costs a year before there is even any thought towards paying him/her. That money has to come from somewhere, and there's not enough sponsorship or fan $$ to cover those costs for all drivers in all series. Get rid of drivers who pay to play either with their own or sponsor $$ and most of the "best" racing goes away...World Challenge, Koni, Rolex, and probably even ALMS.
The comparison to other sports is silly. Every sport you mention has junior leagues that cost just a few $$ to play from age 5 and up and school leagues that are totally free, including college scholarships where players get even more experience before turning Pro. Racing has no such system. Even at the lowest levels, a race car driver "costs" $200K or more in operations costs a year before there is even any thought towards paying him/her. That money has to come from somewhere, and there's not enough sponsorship or fan $$ to cover those costs for all drivers in all series. Get rid of drivers who pay to play either with their own or sponsor $$ and most of the "best" racing goes away...World Challenge, Koni, Rolex, and probably even ALMS.
I interviewed Carlos DeQuesada team owner of Alegra Motorsports after their 2007 win (GT Class) at the Rolex 24. This team won the Crown Jewel of the Grand Am Series and the prize money was......are you ready........ $10,000.
Carlos joked that that didn't even pay for lunch for the crew.