Race car drivers are not athletes
08-13-2008, 02:04 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Race car drivers are not athletes
Yeah right. I am in a pissing match on another board with some idiots saying race car drivers are not athletes, it's the cars, not the drivers. Any good replies would be appreciated.
Here is the original post
Here is the original post
The list of stupid sports touched on one of my pet peeves. I see all sorts of activities pass themselves off as sports. My rules for determining which activities are sports are simple:
1) Is the method for determining the winner objective? Clearly designated parameters for winning and losing must be in place. Officials must not determine who wins, just that every one plays by the same rules. If the winner is determined by judges, it's not a sport. This doesn't mean the participants aren't great athletes. They just don't play a sport.
2) The primary skill must be of a physical nature. That might come in the form of strength, speed or endurance. Though hand-eye coordination is important in many sports, it can't be the primary athletic skill in true sports. Darts isn't a sport. NASCAR isn't a sport unless we're saying the cars are the athletes (I imagine I'll get some disagreement there). Horse racing is a sport, but the horses are the athletes.
Not sure why this bugs me so much. I've had this conversation several times. I still don't get why we call every competition under the sun a sport.
1) Is the method for determining the winner objective? Clearly designated parameters for winning and losing must be in place. Officials must not determine who wins, just that every one plays by the same rules. If the winner is determined by judges, it's not a sport. This doesn't mean the participants aren't great athletes. They just don't play a sport.
2) The primary skill must be of a physical nature. That might come in the form of strength, speed or endurance. Though hand-eye coordination is important in many sports, it can't be the primary athletic skill in true sports. Darts isn't a sport. NASCAR isn't a sport unless we're saying the cars are the athletes (I imagine I'll get some disagreement there). Horse racing is a sport, but the horses are the athletes.
Not sure why this bugs me so much. I've had this conversation several times. I still don't get why we call every competition under the sun a sport.
08-13-2008, 02:13 PM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
08-13-2008, 02:14 PM
#4
Drifting
Ask them if Baseball players are athletes.
08-13-2008, 02:28 PM
#6
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"......officials must not determine who wins"
I would think that would reduce the likely field of sports to......hmmm NONE. I have a name for that son of an un-wed mother it is Monsieur Dumbass.
I would think that would reduce the likely field of sports to......hmmm NONE. I have a name for that son of an un-wed mother it is Monsieur Dumbass.
08-13-2008, 02:34 PM
#7
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08-13-2008, 02:41 PM
#8
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Give him Hemingway's line:
Mountain Climbing, Bull Fighting and Automobile Racing are the only true sports. The rest are just games.
Then what about golfers, Fred?
A baseball hitter has to hit a darting object moving at 95 mph while 40,000 are screaming.
A golfer needs complete quiet in order to hit a slightly smaller stationary object.
(See you in a couple of weeks...)
Mountain Climbing, Bull Fighting and Automobile Racing are the only true sports. The rest are just games.
Then what about golfers, Fred?
A baseball hitter has to hit a darting object moving at 95 mph while 40,000 are screaming.
A golfer needs complete quiet in order to hit a slightly smaller stationary object.
(See you in a couple of weeks...)
08-13-2008, 02:49 PM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
FYI - when I Googled "Hemingway + motor racing" to get the right quote I found several links that hint that Hemingway never said that, he thought bull fighting was tragic and wrong, but that one of his contemporaries said it. Hemingway Quote
Of course I still attributed the quote to Hemingway.
08-13-2008, 02:54 PM
#10
Race Director
The problem is that if you have not raced you just don't understand the physical nature of even light modded "street cars".
I did a 2 hour enduro at Miller Motorsports park this summer. The race started about 2 hrs after I completed a 30 minute sprint race. I figured it was no big deal, but even a 34 years old and in reasonable shape (155lbs) it was quite physically demanding. I was also very mentally demanding as running "qualfying pace" for that long is quite fatiguing. Sure your body does not seem to move around much, but mental effort makes you body work overtime. I remember that I made 2 of just the slighest mental lapses due to fatigue and quickly found myself having to correct to stay on the road. I also did experience a physicall wall sort of effect that you often do when running or biking. The first 15-20 minutes goes by relativly easy as you are working hard, but not overextending your effort. Then you hit a point where your mind and body says "Ok time to take rest". Well you can't so you just push through it for 5-10 mintues before you break through and reach a plateau. You are not physically 100% like at the start, but can still maintain a high level of physical output for a seemgly long time.
In end the busted through that wall and really enjoyed the last hour and 15 mintues of the race. I felt like I could go on for longer, but once out of the car I really felt it and was physically worn out. My mind was strong, but my body said no more.
It is quite hard to explain why racing is so physically demanding, but it is.
08-13-2008, 03:08 PM
#11
Drifting
"Racing is not a sport" != "Race car drivers are not athletes"
Racing is a "sport"... it's an activity done for fun - end of story.
"If race car drivers are athletes" is not the question you think it is... that question is more comparable to asking "are white people athletes" or "are females athletes". That is to ask, are "all race car drivers athletic"... you can't answer for the general population, but you may be able to on a case-by-case basis.
Perhaps the question then is "does being a 'good race car driver' require that you 'be an athlete'"? In that case, i would say it depends entirely on the level of competition. In F1 there is an obvious level of physical demands - you need to be strong & have good endurance. It also helps to be fit, as the less you weigh, the more weight is given to the designers... also the smaller you are the more room is given to the aero and packaging engineers.
"Lesser series" would require less athleticism. NASCAR for instance, while still physically demanding, doesn't give as much a technical advantage to the more athletic driver. Get all the way down to local-level autocross or DE events, and you'll easily find out of shape elderly drivers who can still compete with much more physically fit young drivers - even experienced & talented young drivers.
Racing is a "sport"... it's an activity done for fun - end of story.
"If race car drivers are athletes" is not the question you think it is... that question is more comparable to asking "are white people athletes" or "are females athletes". That is to ask, are "all race car drivers athletic"... you can't answer for the general population, but you may be able to on a case-by-case basis.
Perhaps the question then is "does being a 'good race car driver' require that you 'be an athlete'"? In that case, i would say it depends entirely on the level of competition. In F1 there is an obvious level of physical demands - you need to be strong & have good endurance. It also helps to be fit, as the less you weigh, the more weight is given to the designers... also the smaller you are the more room is given to the aero and packaging engineers.
"Lesser series" would require less athleticism. NASCAR for instance, while still physically demanding, doesn't give as much a technical advantage to the more athletic driver. Get all the way down to local-level autocross or DE events, and you'll easily find out of shape elderly drivers who can still compete with much more physically fit young drivers - even experienced & talented young drivers.
08-13-2008, 03:08 PM
#12
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Isn't "motorsports" one of the few sports that actually has "sport" in the name?
And I agree with Joe...spend just 45 minutes in 100 degree heat (cool shirt or not), trying to have perfect hand/eye coordination in a car going 140 ^ mph making split second decisions, etc. etc. If you aren't in shape, you'll wish you were.
And I agree with Joe...spend just 45 minutes in 100 degree heat (cool shirt or not), trying to have perfect hand/eye coordination in a car going 140 ^ mph making split second decisions, etc. etc. If you aren't in shape, you'll wish you were.
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08-13-2008, 03:21 PM
#13
Racer
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Ask him if he still believes we are living in 500BC Athens. 'Atheletics' has it origins from the limited contests in the first Games - discus, javelin, foot race etc. What we today call "Track and Field.
So he can either limit his definition to that of 2500 years ago or he can choose to expand it to reflect new realities.
He probably also lives in a cave (Plato's). The philosophy majors will like that one.
So he can either limit his definition to that of 2500 years ago or he can choose to expand it to reflect new realities.
He probably also lives in a cave (Plato's). The philosophy majors will like that one.
08-13-2008, 03:30 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Who cares what people say on the internet? 
08-13-2008, 03:50 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Many years ago, before TV went entirely into the sewer, there was an athletic challenge show with athletes competing in a mini Olympics series. The athletes came from all sports from boxing and wrestling, to basketball and skying and weight lifting. All were pros to. Guess who lasted for the most shows of the series? The pro race car driver. Watching the heavy weight boxer trying to swim in the ??meter competition was painfull.