When is WGI going to fix turn 11!!!!!!!
08-12-2008, 01:36 PM
#32
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I've stumbled away from every wreck I've been in, fast or slow. I've been sore and dizzy after all of them. I dont think that's a good judge for track safety, but I can see your point.
No one was seriously injured in that crash as far as I know, due mostly to strong cars and driver equipment technology.
I dont see a good fix being suggested here (nor do I have one). If you remove the tire barrier and replace it with a guardrail, you'll have cars hitting it head on in a brake failure at 100+, so that isnt any better. Runoff is the best way but its not going to happen anytime soon due to the reasons listed above. When someone's injured, the public will demand it. Until now, there's no "cheap" fix that the track will embrace.
In the meantime, I would discourage everyone from running wide at the exit of T11.
08-12-2008, 01:50 PM
#33
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Back in the day, when I did DE's, I took a few photos. These are from a single DE weekend, and only the ones I saw. A DE for crying out loud!
I still say there should be just a little more room for error. No other track is like this, except maybe Long Beach!
I still say there should be just a little more room for error. No other track is like this, except maybe Long Beach!
08-12-2008, 01:51 PM
#34
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Ahem...
If the Armco in Turn 5 were on the track's edge all the way along, I'd bet that McDuffie would have lived and TK would have walked away.
The fact is that WGI is a pretty safe track BECAUSE of the Armco being where it is. Of course, it does tear up a lot of sheetmetal, but there are very few places where you stand to hit the guardrails at anywhere approaching a perpendicular angle. You most likely will pinball along, which looks terrible but is actually safe.
Not saying that there could not be improvements, and yes it would be nice to have every track be like VIR, but saying having all the guardrail so close is dangerous is not necessarily true. If you're going to hit something, you're usually best off hitting it quickly and getting it over with.
If the Armco in Turn 5 were on the track's edge all the way along, I'd bet that McDuffie would have lived and TK would have walked away.
The fact is that WGI is a pretty safe track BECAUSE of the Armco being where it is. Of course, it does tear up a lot of sheetmetal, but there are very few places where you stand to hit the guardrails at anywhere approaching a perpendicular angle. You most likely will pinball along, which looks terrible but is actually safe.
Not saying that there could not be improvements, and yes it would be nice to have every track be like VIR, but saying having all the guardrail so close is dangerous is not necessarily true. If you're going to hit something, you're usually best off hitting it quickly and getting it over with.
08-12-2008, 01:55 PM
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^^ Agreed. Safe for the car and safe for the driver isnt always the same thing.
RE: VIR - That actually makes me nervous because the ground seems to fall away from the track, so if you go off in the grass when it's raining you arent going to stop until you hit the trees!
RE: VIR - That actually makes me nervous because the ground seems to fall away from the track, so if you go off in the grass when it's raining you arent going to stop until you hit the trees!
08-12-2008, 02:05 PM
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Ahem...
If the Armco in Turn 5 were on the track's edge all the way along, I'd bet that McDuffie would have lived and TK would have walked away.
The fact is that WGI is a pretty safe track BECAUSE of the Armco being where it is. Of course, it does tear up a lot of sheetmetal, but there are very few places where you stand to hit the guardrails at anywhere approaching a perpendicular angle. You most likely will pinball along, which looks terrible but is actually safe.
If the Armco in Turn 5 were on the track's edge all the way along, I'd bet that McDuffie would have lived and TK would have walked away.
The fact is that WGI is a pretty safe track BECAUSE of the Armco being where it is. Of course, it does tear up a lot of sheetmetal, but there are very few places where you stand to hit the guardrails at anywhere approaching a perpendicular angle. You most likely will pinball along, which looks terrible but is actually safe.
Bingo! Thats something that is rarely noticed about the Glen. The whole theory of armco RIGHT next to the track is it never allows the car to gain much momentum in an unwanted direction (against the flow of the track, or a bad angle against an armco). I'm not suggesting they change that, but when problems arise is when cars end up perpendicular to the direction of travel, with other cars on track, and thats the effect that rubber band on turn #11 is creating. I think the need to go back to simply having the curb and the wall. None of those impact would have been half as serious had there just been a wall there, the angles were never close to head on. The cars don't have enough speed in the section to go straight in, even if someone loses their brakes, they can usually get the car to turn some lessening the impact.
08-12-2008, 02:11 PM
#37
08-12-2008, 02:30 PM
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The spinning isn't the problem, it's the 30 others cars charging along at 100mph+ when they cream you broadside and motionless in the middle of the track. I'm not suggesting we try to eliminate all risk from racing, or go overboard with giant asphalt runouts, only that the should fix a very stupid dangerous situation that has a very obvious and simple solution.
08-12-2008, 02:40 PM
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....and I have yet to see a feature at LRP that takes what would be a relatively light side swipe of the wall, and turn it into large multi car pileup with numerous 80-100mph broadside impacts....
08-12-2008, 03:57 PM
#42
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Hold on, LRP had the same setup at the downhill turn; tire wall contained by a conveyer belt, and it showed that it would spit cars back into traffic. I think they removed it, problem solved. The Glen should do the same, easy fix.
The other stuff I was talking about is slightly off topic.
The other stuff I was talking about is slightly off topic.
08-12-2008, 04:28 PM
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^
Yup I stand corrected, now that I think back I remember a few of those. The biggest difference though was at LRP there was room to avoid them on both sides so the incidents weren't as dramatic.
Yup I stand corrected, now that I think back I remember a few of those. The biggest difference though was at LRP there was room to avoid them on both sides so the incidents weren't as dramatic.
08-12-2008, 05:00 PM
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how does that relate at all to this topic, the discussion is about turn 11 at WGI spitting cars back out into the middle of the track, whether you can see them before your about to hit is not the source of the problem...........
....and I have yet to see a feature at LRP that takes what would be a relatively light side swipe of the wall, and turn it into large multi car pileup with numerous 80-100mph broadside impacts....
....and I have yet to see a feature at LRP that takes what would be a relatively light side swipe of the wall, and turn it into large multi car pileup with numerous 80-100mph broadside impacts....
If you really only view the sitting broadside in the middle of the track as the problem, then their are all kinds of problems at tracks. Every blind apex is a problem the way you look at it.
Also, I've always seen people head across the track at LRP becuase of trying to not go off the outside of the downhill. They then shoot towards B paddock and catch the tire wall on the inside of the straight. That tire wall holds people in pretty well.
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=oxKACW3aMgs
08-12-2008, 05:30 PM
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People can see the cars as they are turned broadside at the glen just fine, it's not the line of sight that is a problem, it the whole no where to go but right into them or the other 5 cars that are collected. These cars aren't just getting turned/spun broadside, they are getting shot back into the middle of the track in a rather unpredictable manner.