Older cars at DE
07-21-2008, 04:52 PM
#91
Mr. Excitement
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I see a lot more type "A" crap in Club Race than in DE. At least with C.R. you have some paper data to dispell the DE winners visions of grandure. "Welcome to you car and skills true class and level, please take a seat below the crease" Yes there are some that think thay have something to win in DE but for the most part folks are good natured and there to have fun. I think the guys that think the track revolves around them stick out and are noticed more.
07-21-2008, 05:15 PM
#92
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Bring out the old cars! Sure, you need to pay attention to mirrors more (unless its a not so stock, old car) but it can be an absolute blast to "drive a slow (old) car fast". Heck, mine isn't quite 100% reliable yet, but it seems the paddock is full of folks who "once had a car like that" to help out when things need to get working again. To the OP, break out the Alfa and go have some fun!!!!
07-22-2008, 09:01 AM
#93
Race Car
At short courses with few passing zones, either I'm holding guys up in the straights or they are holding me up in the turns. -sometimes I'm holding up really fast guys everywhere....
Longer courses seem to be less of an issue.
I also point a lot before the turn in, ahead of passing zones...
I still remind myself this IS a Drivers Education, and not a test day at the track... some fast cars drive slow and you need to plan for it.
I'm moving into super solo (open passing group), so it should be even less of an issue. (6pt cage/fire system/race seat w/ brace, etc)
07-22-2008, 07:59 PM
#94
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Anyway from a safety perpsective I would much rather be going aroud the track in my fully caged 944 vs a street GT3 if something goes wrong. The 944 will be going slow in most cases and having the full cage and related gear gives me the best chance to make it. A GT3 may have all the modern and new parts, but I can't say i would feel safer short of making it a GT3 CUP. The thing is my 944 gets a very good going over that most street cars just don't see. I know I am bluring the lines of this by comparing race prep to street car, but often times money dictates that new cars are too expenive/nice to get full race prep while older ones start will less value so it is easier to spend the $$$ on race prep. Even when you consider old parts most OLD race cars get good mechanical attention and many infact better than 4-5 year old street cars.
After seeing a 996 GT-3 go off the end of the back straight at Mosport at high speed and straight into the concrete wall, I have to say I would much rather be in a new car in a crash than mine, cage or not (unless it was very stout cage). Unfortunately, the crumple zone in my car is between the dash and the seat.
07-22-2008, 09:57 PM
#95
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Safety Equip= gud
Mosport a few years back.... the driver of the rotating car radioed that he thought he rolled
the scruts (Walt) looked at the car and asked us if this car rolled... there was no damage to the top of the car ( the antenna was undamaged )... Just some rash on driver side quarters....
hmmmm sorry this doesnt have anything to do with this thread
Mosport a few years back.... the driver of the rotating car radioed that he thought he rolled
the scruts (Walt) looked at the car and asked us if this car rolled... there was no damage to the top of the car ( the antenna was undamaged )... Just some rash on driver side quarters....hmmmm sorry this doesnt have anything to do with this thread
07-22-2008, 10:06 PM
#96
Race Director
After seeing a 996 GT-3 go off the end of the back straight at Mosport at high speed and straight into the concrete wall, I have to say I would much rather be in a new car in a crash than mine, cage or not (unless it was very stout cage). Unfortunately, the crumple zone in my car is between the dash and the seat.
Needless to say I like newer cars and trucks.
This is the primary reason the TR6 in my sig below, which was my dad's, is for sale.
I would rather not write off my car so I drive it accordingly. I'm not a rolling chicane (well at the Glen at Zone 1 this year I was but it was my first time there) but I don't hang it all on the line.
Last edited by Crazy Canuck; 07-23-2008 at 12:25 AM. Reason: added photo
07-23-2008, 12:06 AM
#97
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I want to thank everyone who posted to this thread as it has provided some very good insights. I signed up for a PCA DE event at Blackhawk Farms and will run the Alfa. Judging from the entry list, it should be mostly newer P-cars with some 80's 911's and 944's thrown in.
My major worry is being a rolling chicane. In the spring I attended a Lotus event in which a well prepped (RA1's, roll bar, lowered suspension) E30 325 participated. Although the car was competently driven (he hit the turn-in points and apexes), it really slowed down the Lotus and other more modern cars in the intermediate run group. There was an active argument among the organizers whether to bump him down to the novice class simply because of the speed differentials, and that is something I would like to avoid.
My major worry is being a rolling chicane. In the spring I attended a Lotus event in which a well prepped (RA1's, roll bar, lowered suspension) E30 325 participated. Although the car was competently driven (he hit the turn-in points and apexes), it really slowed down the Lotus and other more modern cars in the intermediate run group. There was an active argument among the organizers whether to bump him down to the novice class simply because of the speed differentials, and that is something I would like to avoid.
07-23-2008, 11:13 AM
#98
Race Director
After seeing a 996 GT-3 go off the end of the back straight at Mosport at high speed and straight into the concrete wall, I have to say I would much rather be in a new car in a crash than mine, cage or not (unless it was very stout cage). Unfortunately, the crumple zone in my car is between the dash and the seat.
I have seen a few 944's get in to some nasty wrecks (including my father's head on in our 87 924S). Both street and track. They all have held up very well. Rumor is the 924/944 was designed for a higher crash test speed than is even used today. The story is Porsche was concern the speed would be increase in coming year and designed the car around that. Then the gov't never instituted that. Maybe it is just urban legend, but I do feel my 944 tub is pretty stout. That combined with lower speed due to less hp and full cage/safety gear give me good sense of security should anything bad happen.
07-23-2008, 12:31 PM
#99
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Frankly, when it comes to safety once you start factoring in cages and other devices, I dont think we have any way of knowing which is better until after the fact. I know I wouldnt want to be in a shunt in any airbag equipped car with a helmet on. Not many owners of moder cars that I've seen have removed the airbag. OTOH, how well built are most cages? When floks in modern cars add harnesses and H&Ns etc, at the very least, there is very little, if any, data on how safe this actually is with the aribag system still active. It certainly wouldnt surprise me if the interaction between race gear and street gear is more problematic then some might expect.
07-23-2008, 01:16 PM
#100
Mr. Excitement
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Frankly, when it comes to safety once you start factoring in cages and other devices, I dont think we have any way of knowing which is better until after the fact. I know I wouldnt want to be in a shunt in any airbag equipped car with a helmet on. Not many owners of moder cars that I've seen have removed the airbag. OTOH, how well built are most cages? When floks in modern cars add harnesses and H&Ns etc, at the very least, there is very little, if any, data on how safe this actually is with the aribag system still active. It certainly wouldnt surprise me if the interaction between race gear and street gear is more problematic then some might expect.
