jcb-memphis

DE 996TT. Hooked. Year one. Green. Likely never to race.

Got a BK harness bar. Now I am having the big second thoughts on doing anything over the stock + CG locks that I have.

I use the car dd. Kids use the back seats (two kids, boosters right now...love it).

The front seats have to be exactly the same in my book....rules and "right thing to do."

So, stock OR better seat but stock belts OR 5pt capable folding seats, 5 pt harness, Hans or equivalent.....and even then, I feel the right thing to do would be a roll bar......and then it just seems silly because I then loose the back seat. Any roll bars that let you have the rear seats with people still? Serious question.

Am I just fooling myself in thinking I can have it all?

TIA

Jeff

LVDell

Absolutely. I tried that thinking at first and realized very quickly that you CANNOT have a comfy DD and a great track car. You need to either sacrifice both and probably never be happy or pick one over the other. I thought my GT3 would be part city cruiser and it just never was comfortable and I kept sacrificing performance on the track. So I decided some time back to make it 99.99% track car. Every once in a while I will take her out on the streets but it is VERY rare (PCA meetings, etc.).

As far as the harness bar you are heading in the right direction if you want to run 6pt belts and have a proper seat. A roll bar is a must. A harness bar IMHO is very dangerous as it provides NO protection in a rollover and wearing 6pts makes you a sitting duck.

RedlineMan

Ummm...

You CAN have both Jeff. Sort of. If you can find a harness MOUNTING bar that you can take in and out for events, then a set of articulated seats with belt holes, then you can make a reasonable compromise. You will have most of your daily utility left, and also have a lot more track security.

An opinion cannot be argued, only changed. However, the premise is a complete myth, and the liklihood is dynamically and statistically minute.

LVDell

What empirical evidence do you have to support your stance? I am not saying mine is correct as mine is opinion and anecdotal in nature from talking to those in the industry rather than actual published research. Just wondering where you are getting your information to be able to claim "statistically" minute.

Looking at this from the standpoint of a rollover, if you are in a 3pt you will be able to move within the cockpit wit more of a chance to avoid a crushed roof in a rollover. With a 6pt and no rollover protection, you have no chance to move.

If you can, please educate me why the stance I have is wrong (or myth as you stated). Trust me, I am a scientist by trade and if presented with empirical evidence I will gladly listen to such.

rlm328

+1 to Dell.

We increase our probability of having a high energy excursion just in the pursuit of our hobby. I for one do not want to take any more risks than necessary. There are several manufacturers of weekender roll bars (DAS Sports for one) for your 996. Do your self a favor and get one.

jcb-memphis

So my hunch was right...either do it 100% all the way (in which case it is not really much fun as a DD car if I want my kids to come in the back OR leave it alone, have a lot more money, and just realize that I might max out in the white group....). I suppose in time if I want to go beyond white, I'll have to really think about things....right now I wish I had a 993 NA full track car AND my dd car stock...ug.

JB

sechsgang

I found it impossible to get REALLY good performance from a turbo on the track and have it be great on the road...thats why I switched to the 996 gt3...All I have are pole position seats, harness' an alignment and a couple extra bobbles...and its great on the road and the track.

jcb-memphis

Nice to hear from you. Stock turbo has a LOT more lag than a tuned one with a LWFW...but I suspect you are right, the gt3 is just a better track tool. Period.

I am not in your league. For me, a 964 C2 would probably be too much.....but, I love the torque....


JB

85Gold

Adding a fixed back drivers race seat, I am partial to Sparco's as they are significantly less $$$ that the GT3 seats, and running the stock seatbelt is a good compromise for a DD/HPDE car. Worked well in my GT3 on the One Lap of America.

Peter

todinlaw

I agree that it is difficult to have the perfect track car as a DD I think what I take from VDell is that when it comes to Safety to make a track car safe you have to discount the street driving. and if you want to keep it street, you may have to discount the degree of safety at the track. Its always a choice. When I bought my GT3 at first it was a DD now its a track car that I drive on ave to work 1x a week. My wife says I have ruined it. Not me, its safe, role bar, gt3 seats and 6pt belts, ect. I no good as a family man if I am in a wheel chair or worse.

BrokeAss

I've tried to get the best of both worlds in my Cayman S. I replaced the OEM seats with GT3 seats. During the week you can use the stock belts and on the weekend you can buckle up in a 6 point harness. It's a little easier to install a harness bar in a Cayman as there's no rear seat to lose functionality to.

....and it's my wife's daily driver. Gotta love a woman who doesn't mind running around town in racing seats!

jcb-memphis

You guys are making this very, very hard.

RedlineMan

Not at all;

It is very easy. If you think you are going to roll, you probably need a roll bar. If you make this decision on your gut, no one can agrue it. If you make it based on statistics, then it makes no sense at all, as the number of roll-overs in DE events might not even register.
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Posting pictures of crushed cars is utterly meanignless, as there is ZERO context to back up the inference. Looks like a building fell on it to me.

The same that you do, Dell.

How long have you been doing this, and how many cars have you seen go upside down? I've been doing the car thing for almost 30 years, both professionally and recreationally. In that time I've fixed numerous cars that have rolled, but in 15 PCA years I've only seen two on their lids at a DE. Both of those were **** up AFTER hitting a tire wall, and the roll was not of significant force. Relative to the number of participants and miles driven, that rates as insignificant by any measure.

Thanks for bringing this out (yet AGAIN). It is an utterly common falacy. It always comes to this argument, and it is an absurdly easy point to refute, IF you have the power of observation and extrapolation.

No one has done racing rollover testing to my knowledge. However, if you observe available sled testing - of which there is a plethora - and apply what you see to an inverted state, it should be ABSURDLY OBVIOUS that you have no chance of NOT MOVING. This by way of saying that you stand NO CHANCE WHATEVER of overcoming the forces that will be acting on your body.

Forget entirely about the roof coming down, and think about this for a moment. What should you be able to see?

jcb-memphis

Ok, so on to step two.

I put in the BK 1029 bar I bought. I'll go for 5pt harnesses from a major vendor.

What folding seat is best for a 5pt?

I would love gt3 seats....or even sparco's...and the latter are very cheap, but my two sons like the back seats. And I like having them in the car quite a bit!

I'd keep the original seats for future use if and when I even sell or need them.....natural brown is the interior color with metropol blue carpet....hard to match. This is one time I wish I had black seats.....

My instructors each had harnesses and took me for rides. I loved the way you are held in....just way better (and I have cg locks..).


TIA.


JB

CWay27

I got the BK 1035 trusses bar and remove the triangle part after DE is over. As for seats, for now I have one seat mounted on a bracket and slider kit along with 6 points mounted to it(except for shoulder belts). I remove the seat once I'm done. Entire process takes about an hour.